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#1 electronicham

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 09:29 AM

I have never played 40K; I've just only watched it play. I am truly interested in getting down with some Black Crusade, but I feel I don't have the knowledge background on this world as some of the posters here do. What are some recommended books, wikis, etc that I could get spun up on?



#2 Adeptus-B

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 10:53 AM

My favorite 40K books are the Eisnhorn trilogy by Dan Abnett. It's told from the point of view of an Inquisitor, not a Chaos follower, so it isn't a perfect intro for BC, but you'll pick up a lot of good info on the overall themes of the 40K universe. There are a handful of books with Chaos followers (usually Chaos Space Marines) as the main characters, but I haven't read any of them yet, so I can't help you out there...



#3 electronicham

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 10:58 AM

No problem, thanks for the post. I will pick those up. I am getting ready to deploy to the Middle East so I will have a lot of reading ahead of me.



#4 Decessor

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 11:24 AM

Out of the recent books, I'm quite fond of Soul Hunter and Blood Reaver by Aaron Dembski-Bowden. They centre on a warband of Night Lords chaos space marines. Their motivations for their actions are pretty interesting and it gives some insight into how renegade marines cope outside of the Eye of Terror (e.g. rebuilding ruined power armour by stripping fallen loyalists and renegades alike).



#5 Alluvian Est-Endrati

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 11:38 AM

For wikis to read, the best one that I am aware of for 40k is this: http://wh40k.lexican.../wiki/Main_Page



#6 Lynata

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 02:51 PM

I would recommend the short story anthology "Dark Millennium" - it features about a dozen stories dealing with pretty much every aspect of 40k, including Chaos, so you're bound to get a short glimpse into most things that are important. A nice entry into the grim darkness of the 41st millennium, imo.

Keep in mind that novels are interpretations and may, at times, clash with GW's official opinion on things - they're not supposed to do this, but sometimes things slip past the editors. If you can get your hands on one or more of the Codices, I'd deem them the most reliable resource. That's not to mean that the novels may not provide some very good insight or inspiration, too, just a little warning not to necessarily take everything they claim at face value. Their proximity to the official stuff depends heavily on the author.


current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#7 Dan_of_Hats

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 06:55 AM

It's probably a bit difficult to get a hold of nowadays, but I highly recommend the Bloodquest comic strip that used to run in Warhammer Monthly (does anybody else remember that comic? Good times...), a trilogy centered around a squad of disgraced Blood Angels exiled from the chapter after their Captain, Leonatos, loses the relic blade Encarmine, the Sword of Belarius, to an Ork warlord. What does this have to do with Chaos? Well this comic series was done as a trilogy, and while I won't spoil much, it gave a VERY unique perspective of Chaos (for its time at least) from an Imperial viewpoint throughout the second and third story arcs. It's very much worth a read, if only because it was written by Gordon Rennie and the artwork was done by Colin MacNeil.

To a lesser degree, the series Demonifuge and Inquisitor Ascendant also gave interesting, if somewhat predictable, views upon chaos from an Imperial standpoint, although with a few twists here and there.



#8 Dulahan

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 08:05 AM

Lynata said:

I would recommend the short story anthology "Dark Millennium" - it features about a dozen stories dealing with pretty much every aspect of 40k, including Chaos, so you're bound to get a short glimpse into most things that are important. A nice entry into the grim darkness of the 41st millennium, imo.

Keep in mind that novels are interpretations and may, at times, clash with GW's official opinion on things - they're not supposed to do this, but sometimes things slip past the editors. If you can get your hands on one or more of the Codices, I'd deem them the most reliable resource. That's not to mean that the novels may not provide some very good insight or inspiration, too, just a little warning not to necessarily take everything they claim at face value. Their proximity to the official stuff depends heavily on the author.

 

Depends a lot on the novels.  And keep in mind this is for the RPG too, not the Wargame.  the RPG draws much more heavily on the novels, especially the Abnettverse and Ciaphas Cain stuff that so many 40k Wargamer purists consider to not be in line with Canon (Despite the fact GW pretty much rejiggered to BE in line with them due to their popularity)

 

Basically, anything by Abnett, Graham McNeil, or any of the others who have done Horus Heresy Novels are going to be Current Canon.  Also keep in mind sometimes GW wants to keep things vague and is often quite happy with contradictions because we're basically seeing propaganda at times.



#9 Drake56

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 09:23 AM

for novels with a chaos main in i recomend the dark apostle series by anthony reynolds or storm of iron though these mainly concentrate on the chaos marines another good book is first heretic as it shows the corruption of the first traitors legion (that we have lore on). i 've not read them myself but the blood gorgon series is meant to be good and for rengades i suggest the soul drinker series



#10 Dulahan

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 10:05 AM

Blood Gorgons wasn't bad.  Definitely shows a good example of the very...  stubborn nature of any Astartes (Traitor or Loyalist).

 

I read it quite quickly and enjoyed it.  Though Zou's not the most popular since there's  some allegations of Plagiarism.



#11 Lynata

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 12:18 PM

Dulahan said:

Depends a lot on the novels.  And keep in mind this is for the RPG too, not the Wargame.
Aye, of course. Just like the novel authors are free to copy or reject ideas that another of them came up with, so are the RPG developers. And in the end, so are the players, as far as their own games are concerned. Yet when people inquire about what is canon, it should be pointed out that there's still a difference between GW and licensee products.

Sadly, there's no official list of authors that stick close to the canon and those who don't. It is pretty much up to the community to point out contradictions or come up with reviews, and there are a lot of grey zones depending on people's own perception of the setting.

My personal modus operandi is that I roll with new ideas from the novels as long as they do not appear to conflict the studio material. This makes novels (apart from being purchased simply for their worth as an entertaining story) good sources of inspiration for me whilst simultaneously preventing me from slowly getting entangled in a web of contradictions, just because book A says one thing, book B says another, and GW has an entirely different opinion again.

In the end, everyone has to find his own path, but I think that the above approach is pretty much "the best of both worlds".

 

Dulahan said:

Also keep in mind sometimes GW wants to keep things vague and is often quite happy with contradictions because we're basically seeing propaganda at times.
That has been one of their "excuses", aye - I'd say the real reason is, of course, marketing. Despite this being their official purpose, licensee products are often not only purchased because they "tell a good story", but because the fans of the setting hope to expand their in-depth knowledge about the universe. There have even been specific books that deal only with technical specifications, organizational procedures, alien anatomy or the history behind important battles. The second GW makes it too public that all of this are just interpretations, they'd unnecessarily risk to have them lose a part of their appeal, for they might come to be regarded not much different than fan-fiction. And that's why statements about this topic are a bit hard to find, though they have been made, when the interviewed person was basically pushed into a corner with such questions.

On the other hand, GW also sometimes adopts things from licensed publications. I just don't think there's any unwritten rule in this regard. They take what they like and disregard the rest. During the past years, a lot of people within GW were replaced by others, though, so maybe we will see further changes in the near future. I just hope the setting doesn't move too far away from what I've grown to like.


current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#12 Decessor

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 02:57 AM

Lynata said:

Dulahan said:

My personal modus operandi is that I roll with new ideas from the novels as long as they do not appear to conflict the studio material. This makes novels (apart from being purchased simply for their worth as an entertaining story) good sources of inspiration for me whilst simultaneously preventing me from slowly getting entangled in a web of contradictions, just because book A says one thing, book B says another, and GW has an entirely different opinion again.

In the end, everyone has to find his own path, but I think that the above approach is pretty much "the best of both worlds".

 

Aye. I do something similar. Back to the example of Abnett, I was quite happy to use the idea that certain well-developed worlds have networks of cogitators that can be hacked (say by a tech-savvy Throne Agent). I don't recall seeing that explicit notion anywhere else in 40k writing.

As for the direction of 40k, some of the recent codexes have been full of outright silliness (Grey Knights anyone?). I'm hoping not too much of that ethos will bleed over into the RPGs.



#13 bladerunner_35

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 05:08 AM

Repost from Darkreign40k.com:

 

Second best fan-fiction I've read I believe. Beats a lot of the Black Library stuff, imho. I especially like how it shows the steps from raw recruit to full blown battle brother in great detail. And also makes them "human" with emotions and doubts.

 

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4725962/1/The_Misfits

Course, I like almost everything I've read from Black Library so take it for what's it worth.

 

It's about loyalist but one of the main antagonists is a chaos space marine and his goals and motivations are quite well described.

I'd also like to add my vote for Abnett. He makes a decent job of describing the world of 40K, especially in his Eisenhorn and Ravenor novels. I've also read that the later Gaunt's Ghost novels specifically gives a peak behind-the-curtains of chaos. I have only read Traitor General or whatever it is called when they are behind enemy lines. As good a read as any I'd say.

For general Marine psychology read the Horus Heresy series, the first few books are very good and gives a lot of meat to especially traitor marines considering many of them actually lived through those days.....


it takes only a small amount of charitable reading to make the internet dramatically more palatable.

#14 electronicham

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 06:32 PM

You guys rule. I very well may spend my entire deployment reading nothing buy 40K literature. I wonder if this is a bad thing that I plan to read nothing but points of view of Chaos while being in the military, myself, fighting a war.



#15 Dulahan

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 07:02 PM

I'd recommend the Gaunt's Ghosts series in their entirety.  they get increasingly into Chaos, including some behind the lines stuff later on.  Very good reading too.    They're by Dan Abnett too, so, well, that's always a good thing!



#16 Lynata

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 02:07 AM

The Imperial Armour Volumes V, VI and VII may also be interesting in that they detail the Siege of Vraks - a lengthy conflict between the Diocese of Apostate Cardinal Xaphan, who got corrupted into being a pawn by agents of Chaos infiltrating his office, and Imperial forces sent to chastise him. I've not read the books myself yet, but from all I've heard they sound pretty good. It's neither a story nor Chaos PoV, but given that they accompany this conflict from beginning to end (including how Chaos actually managed to gain a foothold on the planet), they may be a good inspiration for Black Crusade, where many adventure may result in similar situations. Also, given that it's made up like military historian accounts, it might fit to your deployment. ;)

And I've been re-reading Dark Millennium in the past days - one of the stories, "Snares & Delusions", also includes a short part where a Chaplain of the Word Bearers remembers a time when they were infiltrating a planet, hiding in tunnels below the great cities whilst their web of cultists worked at expanding their influence, preparing for the day when their masters would finally emerge to lead the rebellion.

Stay safe!


current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#17 bladerunner_35

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 08:54 AM

electronicham said:

You guys rule. I very well may spend my entire deployment reading nothing buy 40K literature. I wonder if this is a bad thing that I plan to read nothing but points of view of Chaos while being in the military, myself, fighting a war.

 

I wish you a safe return.


it takes only a small amount of charitable reading to make the internet dramatically more palatable.




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