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Before Combat clarification


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#1 trickpony

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 08:54 AM

 We ran into a bit of a problem defining "before combat" in our current game.

We are using the Scepter of Kryos expansion, and I am playing a character that has a "before combat" ability of paying 1 fatigue for a magic attack.

I also have a dragon rune that allows me to heal 3 hearts and 3 fatigue, "before combat"

 

Question 1: Since my extra magic attack is an ability, can I do both that and my dragon rune "before combat"?

Question 2: If so, can I choose to do my magic attack first and then use my rune to heal the fatigue I just used?

Question 3: I turned over a Blue giant card (scepter of Kryos) that tells me I have to first fight another blue card (regular deck) before I fight the giant(NOTE: this is a "before combat" ability of the giant). Do I get a "before combat" for both fights, (eg, will I get to heal myself from my first fight, before taking on the giant), or just one?

Thanks,

Ben

 

 



#2 Wiz

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 02:53 PM

For your part 3:

 

This is from the rule book  "When you draw an adventure
card with a “Before Combat” ability, you must resolve that ability
first—even before using any of your own “Before Combat” special abilities."

So the answer is no. You must fight and defeat the blue card drawn first.

Then it is your players turn to do your before combat actions after that fight.



#3 Steve-O

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 03:18 PM

trickpony said:

Question 1: Since my extra magic attack is an ability, can I do both that and my dragon rune "before combat"?

I could be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure you're only allowed to use one "before combat" effect per battle.  So you can do one or the other, but not both.

trickpony said:

Question 3: I turned over a Blue giant card (scepter of Kryos) that tells me I have to first fight another blue card (regular deck) before I fight the giant(NOTE: this is a "before combat" ability of the giant). Do I get a "before combat" for both fights, (eg, will I get to heal myself from my first fight, before taking on the giant), or just one?

I would say you get a "before combat" use for each fight (the secondary fight is entirely nested inside the first,) but as Wiz points out, the challenge card always resolves its "before combat" first, if applicable.

So, you draw the first giant, it's "before combat" goes off and you draw a second card.  If the second card also has a "before combat" that happens next.  Then you get the option of "before combat" (once) against the second challenge card.  Complete that combat.  THEN you get the option of "before combat" (once) against the original giant, which you could use to heal if the rune is still available, and proceed with combat against the first giant card.

At least that's how I see it.  I could be easily be mistaken about the flow of the rules, though.



#4 trickpony

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 11:35 PM

 Yes I saw that but since the ability is "summoning a monster" which I then have to  "battle", shouldn't that be treated as a second combat? I mean you wouldn't deny the summoned monster it's "before combat" would you?

I am imagining meeting this giant, who laughs as he summons a dragon and sits back to watch me die. After I dispatch the dragon, the Giant rises up and comes at me. In this way it's 2 full battles....otherwise I should be fighting both at the same time (which clearly is not what the card says)



#5 trickpony

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 11:49 PM

Steve-O said:


 

 

I could be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure you're only allowed to use one "before combat" effect per battle.  So you can do one or the other, but not both.


Ok. This is from the manual:


Card Activation
Some Item cards become “activated” after you have used their
abilities. When a card is activated, it is turned face down in
your play area. You won’t be able to use
this card again until it is refreshed during
the refresh step of your next turn.
There are limits to how many cards you may
activate during your turn.
You may activate a single card during your
movement step and a single card during your
market step. During the adventure step, you may
activate a single card “Before Combat” and a single
card during each round of combat (see below).
Note that “Always-On” and “Discard” Item cards need
not be activated and therefore do not count towards these
activation limitations.

SOOO, Since my before combat ability is not an "activation card" but an "always-on" card it does not count toward activation limitation...So I can do both....agreed? ;-)



#6 The_Warlock

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 04:00 AM

trickpony said:

Question 1: Since my extra magic attack is an ability, can I do both that and my dragon rune "before combat"?

Question 2: If so, can I choose to do my magic attack first and then use my rune to heal the fatigue I just used?

Here you've found the answers by yourself. You can use ANY Before combat ability and activate ONE Item with a Before Combat ability per combat.

I say ANY because the Hero may have Allies with Before Combat Abilities; each ability may be used in a Before Combat phase.

Read the example which features Varikas the Dead (I suppose this is the Hero you're playing with); it clarifies pretty well the Before Combat possibilities.

trickpony said:

Question 3: I turned over a Blue giant card (scepter of Kryos) that tells me I have to first fight another blue card (regular deck) before I fight the giant(NOTE: this is a "before combat" ability of the giant). Do I get a "before combat" for both fights, (eg, will I get to heal myself from my first fight, before taking on the giant), or just one?

This is the right way to deal with this:

1) resolve the first Blue card before combat ability = draw another Blue card that you must face immediately

2) resolve the second Blue card before combat ability (if any)

3) use your before combat abilities and/or activate an Object (with BC ability) against the second Blue card

4) fight the second Blue card

5) use your before combat abilities and/or activate an Object (with BC ability) against the first Blue card

6) fight the first Blue card

Note that there's no Refresh phase between the two combats, therefore any card that you activated during steps 3-4 will not be available during steps 5-6.

You have to choose wisely what Items to use and when to heal yourself.

 



#7 Wiz

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 12:46 PM

trickpony said:

 We ran into a bit of a problem defining "before combat" in our current game.

We are using the Scepter of Kryos expansion, and I am playing a character that has a "before combat" ability of paying 1 fatigue for a magic attack.

I also have a dragon rune that allows me to heal 3 hearts and 3 fatigue, "before combat"

 

Question 2: If so, can I choose to do my magic attack first and then use my rune to heal the fatigue I just used?

 

Ben

  

I had to find where the answer to this question was so I could post it for you. In the FAQ edition 2 it states ...

" Canceling Wounds and Exhaustion
Q: Some Heroes and Allies (such as Mad Carthos) are required to take heart or exhaustion, in order to use their abilities. If you cancel the heart or exhaustion, (by using armor or some other ability), can you still use the ability?
A: No. You must pay the cost of the ability (heart or exhaustion,) in order to use it. If the cost is canceled, the ability cannot be used, since it’s as though the cost was never paid. "

 

So the answer to you is No. You must pay the fatigue to use your magic attack.



#8 The_Warlock

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 07:27 PM

Wiz said:

trickpony said:

 

 We ran into a bit of a problem defining "before combat" in our current game.

We are using the Scepter of Kryos expansion, and I am playing a character that has a "before combat" ability of paying 1 fatigue for a magic attack.

I also have a dragon rune that allows me to heal 3 hearts and 3 fatigue, "before combat"

 

Question 2: If so, can I choose to do my magic attack first and then use my rune to heal the fatigue I just used?

 

Ben

  

 

 

I had to find where the answer to this question was so I could post it for you. In the FAQ edition 2 it states ...

" Canceling Wounds and Exhaustion
Q: Some Heroes and Allies (such as Mad Carthos) are required to take heart or exhaustion, in order to use their abilities. If you cancel the heart or exhaustion, (by using armor or some other ability), can you still use the ability?
A: No. You must pay the cost of the ability (heart or exhaustion,) in order to use it. If the cost is canceled, the ability cannot be used, since it’s as though the cost was never paid. "

 

So the answer to you is No. You must pay the fatigue to use your magic attack.

There's a difference between cancelling and discarding Wounds/Exhaustion.

If you cancel a loss it's like it has never happened (this is what the quoted FAQ addresses); if you discard (or heal) Wounds/Exhaustion you make it after actually taking the Wounds/Exhaustion.

In question 2 the BC attack is made and Exhaustion is taken. After that the player activates the Dragon Rune in Before Combat to discard the Exhaustion counters he's just taken. This is perfectly legitimate and it's not the same as cancelling. If you cancel, you don't take; if you discard, you do it after taking. This means that if you take Wounds above your limit, you're dead and your Dragon Rune is useless.






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