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Campaign system using BoW and aGoT/SoS expansion?


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#1 RedMike

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 12:42 AM

I don't know if anyone has already considered this on either site - but how good would a marriage of these two games be(that is, Battles of Westeros and A Game of Thrones)?  You would use Game of Thrones as a campaign map, jockeying for position with your units, and then, dependent on the amount of forces fielded, play a Battles of Westeros set-up to resolve the outcome.

I imagine you would need some means of working out the lay-out of the terrain thatwould be equitable, and a suitable set-up to enable the game to be played out as a straightforward skirmish battle, an ambush perhaps or some other situation that would suit with the location and predominant terrain.  The Storm of Swords expansion for A Game of thrones would be even better suited because of its focus on the area around the Riverlands, and its specific focus (or at least closer focus) on Lannister and Stark.

The significant problem is that BoW does not provide models for Baratheon, Greyjoy, Tyrell, Frey, Martell, Arryn etc... - and so this is not something that you could do immediately - but the use of these two systems together would seem like a grand project!

What do BoW players think?



#2 Ruarigh

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 03:39 AM

I would love to see a campaign system. You could possibly use the skirmish system in BoW to set up the forces with the number of leaders and cards determined by the force composition in the strategic game. That would reduce bookkeeping and thus make playing the game easier.



#3 DragonWhimsy

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 05:12 AM

I think it would work very well as long as you're willing to homebrew the rules that link the two games together yourself. You may have to narrow the factions down of course to fit with what's available for BoW. Though you might want to check my "Guessing Game: What's next?" thread to see my reasoning on why I think we'll have BOTH Houses Greyjoy and Baratheon as factions in BoW by the end of this game's second year.


"Do you know the difference between an error and a mistake, Ensign? Anyone can make an error, but that error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it." -Grand Admiral Thrawn

 


#4 wminsing

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 02:31 AM

I have devoted a fair bit of time to thinking on this very subject!  AGOT is still one of my favorite board games, and the idea of doing a AGOT/BOW integration highly interests me.  I already have a draft of my ideas, both a 'simplest possible solution' set and a more complex and fully integrated set.  I can post them here if there is interest- I'd like feedback on them.

-Will



#5 GygaxLives

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 10:40 PM

I would really love to see those rules.  I've been considering doing this, but I'm not even sure where to start with the rules. 



#6 ronsen_04

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 05:18 PM

I second that. Please post the rules draft, with or without discussion attached.



#7 Lincoln10

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 08:22 AM

 Ha! I just bought BoW and am waiting to purchase the AGOT reprint for this exact reason. As mentioned by others, I would also like to see any homebrew rules on this topic.

In the meantime, however, I have been thinking of using BoW to simulate combat in the FFG Civilization game (infantry, artillery, and cavalry). This would be pretty similar to the AGOT/Bow combo mentioned here and would likely use the 'Skirmish' rules with some modifications (i.e., the strength of each military card in Civilization would represent the number of figures deployed in the BoW skirmish).



#8 wminsing

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 06:39 AM

Sorry for the delay guys- below is the draft of the 'simple' rules.  The idea is that the simple rules make as few changes as possible to the rules in AGOT or BOW, basically leaving both games 'intact'.  A more advanced set would alter more AGOT rules to make the integration tighter.  Anyway, let me know what you think or if you have any suggestions!

Land Combat:
Rather then resolve AGOT land battles in the normal fashion, a Skirmish battle is generated for BOW. Use the following procedure:
1. Each player calls for support as normal, and then selects and plays a House Card as normal AGOT. Any ‘before combat’ abilities are resolved immediately.
2. Houses are clearly the same houses as the players are using in AGOT (NOTE: Currently only two houses have been released- instead players should pick ‘Lannister’ or ‘Stark’ at the start of the game and use that House in all BoW Skirmishes)
3. Momentum goes to the player highest on the Fiefdoms Track
4. Commander Setup is based on the House Card played. Players get can select commanders with a Value equal to the strength of House Card played in Step 1 + 3 Value. This yields a Value of between 3 and 6 (using the basic AGOT cards). If the value is 4 or less, the players can pick up to two commanders, if 5 or higher the player can select up to three commanders.
5. Placement Rules are as follows:
a) Terrain within 8 hexes of their board edge
b) Commanders within 3 hexes of their board edge, no overlap of ZOC
c) Units within 4 hexes of their board edge
6. Unit Rating is calculated in the following fashion:
a) Total the strength of the players forces on the AGOT board. Include support and orders (march or defense) but do NOT count the House Card (this is already accounted for in step 4), unless the house card has an ability that modifies combat strength of involved units. A player may use the Valyrian Steel Blade at this point.
b) Refer to the following chart-
Strength 1 = 1 Unit Card
Strength 2-4 = 2 Unit Cards

Strength 5-6 = 3 Unit Cards

Strength 7-8 = 4 Unit Cards

Strength 9+ = 5 Unit Cards
c) The player higher on the Fiefdoms Track can also take one additional Blue-Rank ‘basic’ Infantry unit, representing local lords rallying to his banner. The ‘Basic’ units are as follows-
Stark = War Host of the North
Lannister = Lannisport Spearmen
7. Terrain Rating is always 2
8. Board setup is always A
9. Victory Conditions are always ‘1 VP per unit, most VPs at end of game wins’. If one side routs it is an instant victory for the other side.
10. Round Limit is always 5 <higher?>
11. Command Rating is always 3
12. Order Rating is always 4
13. Leadership Rating is always 3
14. Both sides use the Rout Morale Icon
15. Generate the Skirmish scenario with the above values and resolve the battle in BOW.
16. Determine the Winner and Loser by VP, though if one side routs it instantly loses. The Loser must retreat as per normal AGOT rules, and all post-battle House Card abilities take effect now (including Sword and Castle Icons).

Repeat the above steps for every battle.

Conceding the Field: The player with lesser Strength in a battle (counting units, but not counting leader cards) may always choose to Concede the Field and retreat. In this case, skip Steps 2 through 15 above. The player that Conceded the Field loses the battle and must retreat, and all post-battle House Card abilities are applied as normal. Both House Cards used must be discarded. Note that the Strength of the House Cards is still NOT added to the battle resolution- the intent of this rule is not to allow the weaker player to ‘sucker’ his opponent in by saying he will Concede and then a play a stronger house card to actually win the battle- the player must retreat or fight. This rule is primarily intended to have to go through the steps to resolve a battle that is clearly a mismatch- 1 Unit Card to 4, as example. A player can always choose to fight the battle out, he can never be forced to Concede.

Naval Combat:
Naval battles between Ships are resolved exactly as per the normal AGOT rules, no changes are made.

Optional Rule: Capturing Leaders
While normally capturing a leader in BoW has no game benefit (beyond the immediate tactical benefit of removing an enemy leader from the board), this optional rule makes capturing leaders have a greater effect on the game:
Leader Capture: Follow the normal BoW rules for capturing leaders, but when the leader is captured place his Leader Token with the unit that did the capturing. If that unit is eliminated before the end of the game the leader is freed- he/she cannot participate further in the battle, but will be returned to the owning player at the end of the game.
If the leader is not rescued before the end of the game, the capturing player now holds him as Hostage. A Leader that is a Hostage cannot be selected as a Commander by the owning player in any battle.
Fair Ransom: The owning player can ‘buy back’ a Hostage by paying a Ransom in Power Tokens. This Ransom must be equal to to the Value of the Commander + 1 . The owning player discards a number of Power Tokens equal to the ransom value and the other player receives a number of Power Tokens equal to the ransom value. The player holding the Hostage may not refuse a Ransom request.
Exchange: Instead of a Ransom, if two players each have a Hostage from the other (ie, a Lannister player currently has a Stark Hostage and vice versa) they may, by mutual agreement, Exchange them. Both Commanders are returned to their owning player. Unlike a Ransom, a player may refuse an Exchange request.

 

-Will

 



#9 Old Dwarf

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 06:55 AM

We have been playing BoW using SoS as as a generator for BoW Skirmishes & Scenarios(if they apply).

When a Raid is called for between Lannister & Stark Forces we use BoW ,for the other Houses that don't have BoW figs for we just play as per SoS.The nice thing about this is that you don't have to try to convert SoS Tokens to BoW figs & they try to convert back to Tokens & figure out losses.Whoever wins the BoW battle wins the Raid.

This way we also don't have to figure out Cav  & Inf (or non existant archer )Tokens nor unbalanced Forces,we just assume that any SoS Token type has attached Forces of all types & that a Raiding Force & defending Force will be about the same size.

 

OD


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#10 wminsing

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 07:06 AM

Hmmm, using it just for raids, hadn't thought of that!  That is a good idea, since Raids in AGOT are strength agnostic- just play whatever scenario/skirmish you like.  The converting strength thing is somewhat troublesome, that is why I went with a step system- 2 vs. 3 unit cards or 3 vs. 4 unit cards is manageable for the smaller force with smart choices, though 2 v 4 probably isn't.  Also the same reason why I didn't even try to convert BOW loses to AGOT loses- you just follow the usual AGOT rules for loses after a battle.  I'm also working on an alternative where each piece in AGOT does actually translate directly in BOW units, but that is proving tricky- you want to promote enough variety AND force parity to create interesting BOW scenarios. 

-Will 



#11 Old Dwarf

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 11:37 PM

Tricky is the word for Home Brew like this but it's interesting to try to figure out.Although I only use BoW for Raid Orders ,I've added a House Bolton  Ally Card Deck & a Red Wedding trigger,Solo Rules & various bits to keep the Game in line with the Books.

 

OD


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#12 wminsing

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 04:00 AM

I'd like to see your SoS additions.  The more I think about it the more I think focusing on SoS is a good idea- they will be a lot more synergy, and I now suspect we might never see a House Tyrell house set, they will instead be an Ally box for Baratheon/Lannister (so a four player game with Stark, Lannister, Baratheon and Greyjoy seems plausible).  

I've also revisited the issue with translating AGOT forces to BoW ones to yield more balanced BoW games- I'll post an update when I have it ironed out.

-Will   






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