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Aragorn, Theodred and Responses


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#1 prune

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 07:00 AM

I noticed something about responses, and these two cards, in my first couple of plays. Before I get into specifics, there's a general question : when playing multi-player, how careful are you going to be about the rules? Will you back-up and do-over in a case like below? Will you just stretch the rules a little if the end result is the same?

Theodred : Response: After Théodred commits to a quest, choose a hero committed to that quest. Add 1 resource to that hero's resource pool.

Aragorn : Response: After Aragorn commits to a quest, spend 1 resource from his resource pool to ready him.

Keep in mind that responses are supposed to be used immediately.

Situation 1 : Quest phase; Aragorn has a resource token, and you want to use both him and Theodred to quest.

Correct play: Aragorn exhausts to commit, and you spend his resource to ready him. Theodred exhausts to commit, and gives Aragorn 1 resource.

Incorrect play with same outcome : Theodred exhausts to commit; Aragorn exhausts to commit; use Theodred's ability to give Aragorn a resource; spend that resource to ready Aragorn. Incorrect (I believe) because Theodred's ability has to be used the moment he commits to the quest, and instead it was used later.

In this next situation, this nit-picky timing issue really matters.

Situation 2 : Quest phase, Aragorn has no resources, and you want to use both him and Theodred to quest.

Correct play : Aragorn exhausts to commit. Theodred exhausts to commit, and gives Aragorn 1 resource. At least next turn Aragorn will be able to both quest and fight, but this round Aragorn is exhausted.

Incorrect play : Aragorn exhausts to commit. Theodred exhausts to commit, and gives Aragorn 1 resource. You spend Aragorn's resource to ready him.

Another incorrect play : Theodred exhausts to commit. Aragorn exhausts to commit. Theodred gives Aragorn 1 resource, and you spend that resource to ready Aragorn.

Moral of the story : keep a resource on Aragorn if you want to use him twice per round!
 



#2 Apophenia

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 07:24 AM

 I have been playing that you commit all of your characters simultaneously then you just trigger the reactions in whatever order you desire. Of course that might be wrong but that is how those sorts of things worked in Call of Cthulhu, A Game of Thrones, and Warhammer Invasion so I thought it was a good precedent to follow. 



#3 TheProfessor

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 07:40 AM

 Who knows for sure at this point, but I think the original poster is correct.  The question is about what does "After" really mean.  In the other games (CoC, etc.) it usually mean "Immediately after, and before you do anything else", which is what the OP is considering and analyzing.



#4 Doc, the Weasel

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 08:35 AM

I agree with Apophenia that characters are committed simultaneously (which is the scenario that the OP didn't take into consideration). The example in the book on committing heros suggests this (i.e. player commits hero A and B, rather than hero A and then hero B).


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#5 Darksbane

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 08:46 AM

We really could likely already use a detailed flowchart and a FAQ, like GoT has. If you do declare questers seperately I think the OP has it correct, but if they are done one after another it would be a strange change from how they do the other LCGs.


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#6 prune

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 09:39 AM

Can't say that I have any familiarity with the other LCG's, but I will say :

I've just read through some parts of the rulebook carefully to see if there's anything explicitly stated about things happening simultaneously, and I couldn't come up with anything that seemed to bear on the scenarios I gave.  It seems more natural to me that things happen in sequence, more in keeping with how you actually handle the cards on the table.

I wrote this up because at first I was playing Theodred and Aragorn a bit looser, and then after re-reading the card text and the definition of "Response", it seemed clear (to me at least) that the timing really mattered, and that Theodred couldn't help you ready Aragorn if Aragorn didn't already have a resource.

It could be the intent of FFG that sequencing not matter, and that things like committing to a quest or declaring defenders happen simultaneously, but if so there should be some better statement of this in the rules.



#7 Apophenia

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 10:03 AM

Admittedly, your interpretation may be the correct one. The rulebook really only says "Each player may commit characters to the current quest card. Characters are exhausted when they commit to a quest." It is clear that one player does all of there characters before the next player decided who they want to submit.

I'm just basing my interpretation on the rules for the other LCG. We probably won't know which of us is right until an FAQ is released. Plus I want to abuse the Aragorn and Theodred combo and it is a coop game so Sauron won't get too upset if I play this way. 



#8 jhaelen

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 05:21 AM

Doc, the Weasel said:

 

I agree with Apophenia that characters are committed simultaneously (which is the scenario that the OP didn't take into consideration). The example in the book on committing heros suggests this (i.e. player commits hero A and B, rather than hero A and then hero B).

 

Agreed. There is nothing to indicate that characters committed by one player are not committed simultaneously.

Actually, I think, the turn overview in the back of the rules manual has a single box for everything that is considered simultaneous (for a given player).



#9 prune

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 01:03 PM

jhaelen said:

Doc, the Weasel said:

There is nothing to indicate that characters committed by one player are not committed simultaneously.

Well, there's nothing to indicate that they are committed simultaneously, either.

We'll all just have to play in the way that seems most sensible to us individually, until we get some clarification from FFG.






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