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Can Heroic Leap be played on Vampire Lair?

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#1 Matt DeHayes

Matt DeHayes


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Posted 18 April 2011 - 11:29 AM

I looked through all of the titles of posts up to this point and I didn't see that this question has been asked so I apologize if it has.


This situation came up in last night's session. Vampire Lair was drawn by Mina and then Mina played Heroic Leap almost immediately in response. We had a rules discussion and decided to allow it during that session based on the wording on the cards. This caused Mina to automatically beat the Vampire Lair by taking 1-6 points of damage.

VAMPIRE LAIR: If Dracula has advanced his Vampire track by at least 1, then you may attempt to destroy 1 of the Vampires that he has planted around Europe. Conduct a combat as though you were facing Dracula, but any Wounds or Killed results you score against Dracula mean that he moves his Vampire track back by 1 and the combat ends. If Dracula escapes, this card is discarded. Note that Dracula cannot move as a result of the combat (such as winning by Fangs).


HEROIC LEAP: Play this just before you begin a combat with Dracula. The combat does not take place. Instead, both you and Dracula roll a die, each of you losing Health/Blood equal to the number you rolled. If you are both reduced to zero Health/Blood, the Hunters win even if Dracula fulfills his victory condition by defeating you.

I'd like a more permanent solution. Does anyone know if there were any clarifications made out there regarding this? What are your opinions on the matter from a rules standpoint?

#2 Jervon



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Posted 19 April 2011 - 01:05 AM

Hmm... That's a good question. I would say taht you can not play Heroic Leap. The Vampire Lair orders you to start combat as if you were facing Dracula. And Heroic Leap is played after encountering Dracula but BEFORE combat with him. The rues and FAQ are clear about that you can not play any cards that are played befor combat if combat was already started - in situation when someone plays some combad card's faster than other player could play before combat cards the first player is allowed to take cards back to his hands.

I think that Vampire Lair starts combat and before combat cards cannot be played. But I may be wrong.

#3 Steve-O



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Posted 19 April 2011 - 01:12 AM

Jervon said:


I think that Vampire Lair starts combat and before combat cards cannot be played. But I may be wrong.



I would agree.  To me it seems clear that when Vampire Lair says "conduct combat as if you were fighting Dracula" what they meant was that you should use Dracula's combat cards instead of the minion combat cards (so that the fledgling vampire has access to all appropriate vampire powers for the current time of day.)

This battle is not actually a "combat with Dracula" so Heroic Leap can't be used.  That's just my two cents anyway.  There doesn't appear to be anything about this in the official FAQ.

#4 Taurmindo



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Posted 25 July 2011 - 07:16 AM

Matt DeHayes said:

VAMPIRE LAIR: [..] Conduct a combat as though you were facing Dracula [..]

HEROIC LEAP: Play this just before you begin a combat with Dracula. [..]

i'd say this is the important point. you're not conducting combat with Dracula, only as though you were. thus, the Heroic Leap card is unplayable.

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