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Core Set Math


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#1 DrNate

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 02:56 PM

 Like Denethor, I'm slowly losing my mind, waiting for the LotR game to finally arrive in stores. However, I don't like to play with fire, as he does. I like to play with MATH! So, if you'll allow me to vent...

I'm always thinking about buying a second core set. I know I don't even have one core set yet, but I have to think about something until the game comes out. But I would like three of each Player Card, so I'll have a full card set to choose from whenever it is time to challenge the shadow. 

We know three facts about player cards from the core rulebook: 

120 Player Cards (p3), 15 different cards per sphere (p10), 29 total cards per sphere (add Gandalf to get 30, p9 & 10) 

So, in each core set, a given player card might appear 1, 2, o-r 3 times. But each sphere has to have 15 different cards total. Representing single copy, double copy, a-nd triple copy cards as a, b, c respectively, we see that a+b+c=15

Meanwhile, the core set contains a deck of 29 cards for each sphere. using the a, b, c for single, double, a-nd triple copies of cards, that means that a+2b+3c=29!

Taking our two formulas, (a+b+c=15; a+2b+3c=29) I crunched the numbers through my brain and found eight possible card combinations for each sphere deck in the core set, which would satisfy both: 15 different cards per sphere; 29 total cards per sphere deck. And here they are:

1 single copy card; 14 doubles; 0 triples.

2 single copy cards; 12 doubles; 1 triple

3 single copy cards; 10 doubles; 2 triples

4 single copy cards; 8 doubles; 3 triples

5 single copy cards; 6 doubles; 4 triples

6 single copy cards; 4 doubles; 5 triples

7 single copy cards; 2 doubles; 6 triples

8 single copy cards; 0 doubles; 7 triples

It's possible that all the sphere decks will have the same number of single/double/triple cards in each. But maybe not. Regardless of which breakdown we end up with, we will be 64 cards short of a full play set (15 individual cards per sphere times three copies maximum: 15*3=45 needed, 29 per core set, 45-29=16, times four spheres, 16*4=64). 

How many of those 64 cards will I be able to get, if I buy that second core set I have been pondering? It depends. 

For each sphere that contains 1 single copy card, I can get 15 cards towards my complete play set from a second core set. 

For each sphere with 2 single copy cards, I get 14

Each Sphere with 3 single copy cards, 13

4 single copy, 12

5 single copy, 11

6 single copies, 10

7 single copies, 9

8 single copies, 8

So I will get between 60-32 player cards towards a complete play set from a second core copy, seems like a good value. And that will leave me between 4-32 cards short. At that point, it might be time to hit up Ebay. 

What do you think? Are you going to try for a complete set of three of each player cards? Did I miss or misinterpret any facts or figures in my post? Should I go back to playing solo BSG o-r catching pokemon to pass the time for the next two weeks? Is there any more math I should be doing? Let me know!

 



#2 MarioelKamui

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 04:02 PM

well...nice maths...and like you im loosing my mind...waiting the preorder arrive...

I have another option to know what exactly is in the box...in the video...part 1 it shows all of the cards...you can count them if you like



#3 mkultra

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 05:31 PM

If you want to have a playset (3 of each card),  you need 3 core sets. Until FFG states otherwise, this is a basic assumption. No math necessary.



#4 servant of the secret fire

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 12:16 AM

Best solution is to wait for release date.I think if you want to save money just buy one copy of the core set play some games and then you will see if you need multiply copies of some cards or if you are ok with what core set gives you.

I will need 3 copies of sneak attack and 3 copies of Gandalf for sure for my deck but as i said in a previous thread my 2 closest friends will buy one core set each so i don't have to buy the core set more than once.



#5 faith_star83

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 03:05 AM

Interesting calculations DrNate...boy, you're really dying to get your hands on the game, aren't you? well me, too, but I suck at Maths :(

Maybe you will be able to buy some single cards of ebay? Or maybe ffg hears our pleads and offers like an additional pack or pod service for the lotr cardgame.

@servant: Gandalf is so awesome...are you sure your friends are willing to give it to you? ;-)



#6 servant of the secret fire

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 03:17 AM

faith_star83 said:

 

@servant: Gandalf is so awesome...are you sure your friends are willing to give it to you? ;-)

 

 

AHAHAHA. i have 2 answers for you:

1)I am lucky and my friends have other favorite characters.One of my friends really really loves Aragorn and the other one he is allways in love with the Shire.

2)I am stronger than they are and if they don't give me Gandalf i will kick their a**

 



#7 faith_star83

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 03:45 AM

@servant

you're a lucky guy!!

@drnate

it's actually true what MarioelKamui said: At the end of Video1 they show all the cards and it's quite easy determine what the ratio of singles, doubles, triples is when you look at the artwork. It will probably take some time and the hidef video on youtube ;-)



#8 Bohemond

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 04:14 AM

servant, doesn't each set with four Gandalfs?  how many do you need.  You do know you can't make an all Gandalf deck, right?



#9 servant of the secret fire

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 04:42 AM

Bohemond said:

servant, doesn't each set with four Gandalfs?  how many do you need.  You do know you can't make an all Gandalf deck, right?

I know that you can have only 3 copies in your deck but i want them all for me.I will travel the world and i will take all Gandalf cards for me.They are mine my own my precious... you all keep your hands away from my Gandalfs .



#10 pumpkin

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 05:01 AM

mkultra said:

If you want to have a playset (3 of each card),  you need 3 core sets. Until FFG states otherwise, this is a basic assumption. No math necessary.

 

Which has what has happened with other LCGs right? With the other LCG games though, are there so many "extra" cards that will end up as pointless waste of space if you buy multiple core sets? With LoTR, you have all the encounter and quest cards that will just end up spare if you buy multiple core sets.

Do the other purchases of additional core copies with the other LCGs also end up with similar numbers of waste cards as LoTR?

I kind of assume LoTR gives the purchase more waste, but thats just my gut insitnct, i has no basis in fact.

I think maybe, I am kind of hoping this excessive waste will stop people buying multiple core sets thereby forcing FFG to provide a core set expansion that just provides enough cards to bring up each p[layer card to the  full 3 quota! Even though they haven't done this with other LCGs....

I can but dream!

 



#11 Toqtamish

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 05:23 AM

I have two copies of AGoT and very little of it has gone to waste other than the title cards. But as I have binders with 1 of every card I just put them in there.



#12 CrowOfPyke

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 07:49 AM

The core set will likely include many "unique" cards, which you can only have one of in play, which means you likely only need one copy.  I don't see that possibility accounted for in your math.

 

If you want to be able to have multiple decks built at one time like I do, you might want to order more sets.  I am starting with a preorder of 2 set which is supposed to allow up to 4 people to play, but I may order more if I find there are certain cards I want more of....



#13 Bohemond

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 07:56 AM

Just because you can only have one of a card in play doesn't mean you only want one of them in your deck.  For instance, if I have Aragorn in a deck, I want at least two Celebrain's Stone. Heck, If I I also have Eowyn, I want three of 'em.



#14 mkultra

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 10:35 AM

pumpkin said:

Do the other purchases of additional core copies with the other LCGs also end up with similar numbers of waste cards as LoTR?

In some cases, you got "waste cards" not only from the Core Set, but also from the early Battle/Chapter Packs as well as the first Deluxe Expansions. That being said, this is still 100 times better than the blind booster purchasing and singles chasing that used to plague CCGs/TCGs.

 


#15 servant of the secret fire

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 10:38 AM

mkultra said:

 

 

In some cases, you got "waste cards" not only from the Core Set, but also from the early Battle/Chapter Packs as well as the first Deluxe Expansions. That being said, this is still 100 times better than the blind booster purchasing and singles chasing that used to plague CCGs/TCGs.

 

I can't agree more.



#16 DrNate

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 01:26 PM

I also agree completely. It's almost a sure thing that $40 for a second or maybe even third core set would pay off better than 10 random booster packs are likely to give me. And expansions, with all the cards you'll need in one $15 purchase is value beyond anything a CCG would provide.

I STILL wish we could know how many of each card is in the core set! Please don't be stingy with that card list, FFG!



#17 pumpkin

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Posted 13 April 2011 - 05:42 AM

mkultra said:

pumpkin said:

Do the other purchases of additional core copies with the other LCGs also end up with similar numbers of waste cards as LoTR?

 

In some cases, you got "waste cards" not only from the Core Set, but also from the early Battle/Chapter Packs as well as the first Deluxe Expansions. That being said, this is still 100 times better than the blind booster purchasing and singles chasing that used to plague CCGs/TCGs.

 

 

Yep the LCG concept is loads better, agreed.

 

It seems though that there would be significant take up of a "core expansion" card set, and as these are cards FFG already has the images etc for, doesn't seem like there would be much overhead on their part to produce one.

I've assumed, not knowing a great deal about the other LCGs, that the LoTR core set, with its very specific encounter and quest cards has a higher pecentage of "waste" cards than other LCG core sets, which in turn may put the buyer off from purchasing multiple core sets (which seems normal practice for other LCGs), which in turn might make FFG consider producing a "core expansion" set.

I guess though while people are prepared to buy multiple core sets, FFG has no reason to think about producing a "core expansion" set?



#18 DrNate

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 08:44 AM

Thanks to Bonzo on the April 18th thread we now have math confirmation of one of the spheres.

Tactics will have 4 single cards, 8 double cards, and 3 triple cards. That means a second core set wil provide 12 extra tactics cards, bringing your collection to 11 cards that have a full three copies, and 4 cards that are still short a copy. Also, you will have 17 extra tactics cards to give away to help hook your friends on the game!

I hope we get more math soon! I can't wait to play the game myself!



#19 mkultra

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 10:26 AM

DrNate said:

 

I hope we get more math soon![/QUOTE]

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=201&efcid=4&efidt=476513



#20 mkultra

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 10:35 AM

mkultra said:

DrNate said:

 

I hope we get more math soon!

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=201&efcid=4&efidt=476513

Stupid quote






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