Jump to content



Photo

Is a skill based Parry a good mechanic?


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 Captain Blut

Captain Blut

    Member

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 10 April 2011 - 08:36 AM

Basically my players were complaining that parrying was too easy and that the skill level of the person parrying should come into play. So I was thinking that Parry could become based on degrees of success. The attacker would roll and if he succeeded he would calculate the degrees of success on his roll. The defender would then have to meet or beat the same degree of success in order to Parry. i.e. Brother Lucius has a WS of 60. He rolls a 38 which is 2 degrees of success. The traitor guardsman he is fighting rolls to Parry with a WS of 35. He rolls a 15, two degrees of success matching the 2 from Brother Lucius. Therefore he successfully parries the blow because he matched the degrees of success.

Any thoughts on this system?



#2 Charmander

Charmander

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,491 posts

Posted 10 April 2011 - 05:53 PM

Some folks do this for both parry and for dodge- it's been reported to slow the game down some due to the additional calculations on each roll, but it increases the skill focus. 

Remember if you do it for parry you may want to consider doing it for dodge as well, or dodge will become the reaction of choice for those without balanced power swords.



#3 Siranui

Siranui

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,717 posts

Posted 10 April 2011 - 11:18 PM

 Your players consider it too easy for them, or too easy for their foes?

As someone has said: Those who have playtested the idea reports it slows things down.

I'm not too keen either, both for reasons of speed and balance. As Astartes are better in melee than most things that they face, the rule would essentially advantage the PCs, as their blows would be harder to avoid, and their parries better than even the best of hits delivered by inferior foes. Basically: Your players are suggesting it because it would make things easier for them. So unless they're struggling, then I'd avoid the rule change.



#4 borithan

borithan

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,199 posts

Posted 11 April 2011 - 03:07 AM

Most complaints I have heard or seen are that parrying is too weak (as compared to Dodge) rather than it needing more limitations.



#5 Albeastie

Albeastie

    Member

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 30 July 2011 - 02:01 PM

Maybe you could have parries like this: if ypu're parrying against something one size larger you take a -20 penalty and you can't parry at all against anything two sizes larger than you.



#6 Maelflux

Maelflux

    Member

  • Members
  • 68 posts

Posted 31 July 2011 - 01:02 AM

 We're running with opposed Parry and Dodge. But we also use a house rule where the tens of the roll equal DoS. So we do not suffer from any slowing down as far as we can tell.

It makes for a somewhat more deadly game, but the players like it, as it also works to their advantage when attacking.



#7 Hygric

Hygric

    Member

  • Members
  • 296 posts

Posted 21 August 2011 - 02:37 PM

Maelflux said:

 But we also use a house rule where the tens of the roll equal DoS.

 

I like the sound of that rule!  That should speed things up significantly with some of my group.



#8 Kasatka

Kasatka

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,050 posts

Posted 24 August 2011 - 01:07 AM

 Well the only reason i can see for including this rule are to allow the players to seem more "skilled" at melée as they parry their way through combat. But i mean there are existing talents and mechanics to represent melée prowess.

I forget the exact name of it off the top of my head, but you can spend a half action in combat that if successful means you're next attack cannot be dodged or parried in any way. Then there's counter-attack, allowing you to turn a parry into an attack. Not to mention swift/lightning attack to just overwhelm defences. 

All in all i'd say the system is pretty balanced, and bringing opposed rolls into it will only slow things down and give the players a massive advantage.


Only the insane have strength enough to prosper.

Only those that prosper may truly judge what is sane.


#9 MILLANDSON

MILLANDSON

    Playtester

  • Members
  • 3,356 posts

Posted 25 August 2011 - 04:57 AM

I'm surprised no one has suggested you take a look at Black Crusade - FFG changed it to a skill-based Parry, rather than it being automatically part of WS.


~Yea, Tho I Walk Through The Valley Of The Shadow Of Death, I Shall Fear No Evil~

 

Posts/views/opinions are in no way representative of FFG, and are entirely my own.


#10 Kasatka

Kasatka

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,050 posts

Posted 25 August 2011 - 09:21 PM

MILLANDSON said:

I'm surprised no one has suggested you take a look at Black Crusade - FFG changed it to a skill-based Parry, rather than it being automatically part of WS.

However i am sure that BC has changed a lot of the combat manouvers and melee related talents to account for this.


Only the insane have strength enough to prosper.

Only those that prosper may truly judge what is sane.


#11 XtopherSigismund

XtopherSigismund

    Member

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 06 August 2012 - 04:04 PM

 Personally I feel that Parry should be an advanced skill, and certain specialties get it and can train it at different degrees for XP as per the game mechanics.  Real people would dodge an attack instead of trying to block it most of the time.  Dodging is a natural reaction, where Parrying requires some practice.  Look online at fencing videos and you will see what I mean.  Successfully parrying an incoming attack actually requires a modicum of skill and training to pull off, with hours of practice.  It should be a skill for all the previous systems as well (Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader) since inquisition and merchant marine type characters aren't always as well trained in combat as say, a Space Marine would be.  Space Marines are well versed in combat, but I feel that Parrying should have been a skill from the start.  Why have dodge as a skill that can be improved and not do the same for parrying which actually would require more training and practice to pull off?  

It makes sense that it should be a skill.  The Assault Marine should get it either for free as part of their Specialization, or as a cheap upgradable skill.  The rest of the Specializations should get it for the normal costs as a "General Space Marine Advance" on the XP tables, so that all characters could gain it and gain training in it for a fixed XP cost (Since Space Marines are trained in the art of Combat anyway).  



#12 Nathiel

Nathiel

    Member

  • Members
  • 233 posts

Posted 06 August 2012 - 05:25 PM

BC did give you a skill based off WS for parrying, but it did not make it DoS based. (except for the SA/LA multi hit thing.)

Basicly they made Parry and Dodge the same type of action called 'Evasion.'  The biggest changes were to Wall of Steel and Step Aside. They removed WoS ans Step Aside now gives one extra reaction to be used for evasion per round.  so one less evasion gained, but you need less evasions since you aren't rolling multiple times against SA/LA.

Not realy pertinent to the OP but since it was brought up…






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS