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#1 Narsil0420

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 09:12 AM

Ok, so I finally got a look at a new card, "Thicket of Spears" it's in the fourth part of the video tutorial during the quest phase. I could see it thanks to watching the video on YouTube in High Def.

So the card is a Tactics card, costs 3, and reads:

"You must use resources from 3 different heroes' pools to pay for this card.

ACTION: Choose a player. That player's engaged enemies do not attack this phase"

Now, that's pretty good, cancelling all enemies attacks for a turn, but it seems very prohibitive to have to use three different heroes' resouces to pay for it. I understand the thematic reason, you need to have multiple people working together to create a "thicket of spears" but basically that's limiting the use of this card to when you're playing an all tactics deck. any time you're not using all three tactics heroes this card is worthless, or am I wrong? I guess this isn't that big of a deal, I just picture myself using a dual-sphere deck most of the time.



#2 Dasor

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 09:40 AM

Like five-colors card in magic, there are a few card that are dedicated to a kind of deck, in this case a deck with three tactics heroes, i don't think it's a bad thing.. there will be thousands of different cards



#3 servant of the secret fire

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 09:58 AM

Narsil0420 said:

Ok, so I finally got a look at a new card, "Thicket of Spears" it's in the fourth part of the video tutorial during the quest phase. I could see it thanks to watching the video on YouTube in High Def.

So the card is a Tactics card, costs 3, and reads:

"You must use resources from 3 different heroes' pools to pay for this card.

ACTION: Choose a player. That player's engaged enemies do not attack this phase"

Now, that's pretty good, cancelling all enemies attacks for a turn, but it seems very prohibitive to have to use three different heroes' resouces to pay for it. I understand the thematic reason, you need to have multiple people working together to create a "thicket of spears" but basically that's limiting the use of this card to when you're playing an all tactics deck. any time you're not using all three tactics heroes this card is worthless, or am I wrong? I guess this isn't that big of a deal, I just picture myself using a dual-sphere deck most of the time.

If i can read well this card doesnt says that you must have 3 heroes of a different sphere but you must pay from 3 different heroes(even if all  of them are from the same sphere).I believe that your promblem will be if you dont have 3 heroes but 2 and not if you have 3 heroes of the same sphere.

On the other hand my English are not good and maybe i am totaly wrong.



#4 Bohemond

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 10:24 AM

Great find, Narsil.  I think your reading of the cost is correct.

If I am playing single sphere tactics I would, of course, play with this card.  However, if I was running a dual sphere deck, I wouldn't be concerned with missing out.  In general, I think I would rather have a forest snare, or, because of the cost, even a feint.  Perhaps playing the game will convince me otherwise.



#5 faith_star83

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 11:56 AM

Nice card, I like the theme. It also really fits well into the tactics theme and makes sense to use more than one character. As far as the rules go, I guess it indeed requires three tactics heroes, since only heroes that share a sphere with the card can contribute to its cost.

I think it will be nice in a multiplayer game, where two players will each play a mono-sphere deck.



#6 YGrams

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 02:04 PM

 In that same video, you can see two new enemy cards. The first is "Cavern Guardian" (8 threat cost, 2 threat, 2 attack, 1 defence, 2 health), whose trait is 'Undead' and who has a keyword 'Doomed 1'. Its shadow effect is that you must discard one attachment you control (discarded objectives are returned to the staging area). If the attack is undefended, you must discard all attachments. It seems to be a part of the Escape from Dol Guldur scenario.

The second is "Misty Mountain Goblins" (15 threat cost, 2 threat, 2 attack, 1 defence, 3 health), whose traits are 'Goblin, Orc' and who has a card text reading 'Forced: After Misty Mountain Goblins attack, remove one progress token from the current quest'. Its shadow effect is to remove one progress token from the current quest, or three is the attack is undefended. Ouch. It looks to be a part of the Journey down the River Anduin scenario.



#7 Narsil0420

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 06:10 PM

@YGrams:

Wow, good eyes! I saw the Misty Mountain Goblins card but where exactly did you see the cavern guardian card?



#8 Narsil0420

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 06:13 PM

The other card that I have a question about is the Hummerhorns enemy card. You can see it on some of the table layout shots in the video tutorial. It reads: "After Hummerhorns engages you, deal 5 damage to one hero you control" Now that seems like it would kill any hero, none of them have a hit point rating higher than 5. I am assuming that their defense value doesn't work in this case, but I may be wrong. What do you think?



#9 YGrams

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 07:22 PM

 I saw both of them at around the four minute mark in the fourth video. As for the Hummerhorns, I wonder whether there is something to be noted in that it reads "After Hummerhorns engages you"; that is, maybe the effect doesn't come into play if you decide to engage the Hummerhorns voluntarily, as opposed to them engaging you because of the threat cost.



#10 Dasor

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 01:39 AM

YGrams said:

 I saw both of them at around the four minute mark in the fourth video. As for the Hummerhorns, I wonder whether there is something to be noted in that it reads "After Hummerhorns engages you"; that is, maybe the effect doesn't come into play if you decide to engage the Hummerhorns voluntarily, as opposed to them engaging you because of the threat cost.

 

Yes, it works like this,  engaging and being engaged are different

the first is something like a charge (made by the heroes), the second is something like an ambush (made by the enemies)



#11 Bohemond

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 02:10 AM

While an unmodified hero would be defeated when engaged, Citadel Plate could allow even Bilbo to survive the charge.  In a few rare cases, you might even want to be charged, in an effort to "power up" one of your dwarves.  Allowing an armored Gimli to suddenly swing for 7 or Gloin to gain a whooping 5 resources could be useful in a pinch.

The real danger of the Hummerhorns comes when you remember that a player can only engage one creature per turn.  So, you generally have to engage them, but they may provide cover for another monster.  You might not be able to engage that annoying scout who is lurking in the staging area. 



#12 pumpkin

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 04:56 AM

Dasor said:

YGrams said:

 

 I saw both of them at around the four minute mark in the fourth video. As for the Hummerhorns, I wonder whether there is something to be noted in that it reads "After Hummerhorns engages you"; that is, maybe the effect doesn't come into play if you decide to engage the Hummerhorns voluntarily, as opposed to them engaging you because of the threat cost.

 

 

 

Yes, it works like this,  engaging and being engaged are different

the first is something like a charge (made by the heroes), the second is something like an ambush (made by the enemies)

 

what are you basing this on?

On page 16 under engagement checks it states

"Whether an enemy is engaged through an engagement check, through a card effect, or through a player’s
choice, the end result is the same, with the enemy and the player engaging one another. In all cases, the
player is considered to have engaged the enemy and the enemy is considered to have engaged the player
." (Emphasis mine).

I would have thought this rule meant there was no difference rule-wise between engaging and being engaged.



#13 Bohemond

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 05:02 AM

pumpkin said:

Dasor said:

"Whether an enemy is engaged through an engagement check, through a card effect, or through a player’s
choice, the end result is the same, with the enemy and the player engaging one another. In all cases, the
player is considered to have engaged the enemy and the enemy is considered to have engaged the player
." (Emphasis mine).

I would have thought this rule meant there was no difference rule-wise between engaging and being engaged.

Ug, that makes Hummerhorns brutal.  Especially if the damge has to be applied to a hero, rather than a character.  Where is Wandering Took when you need him?



#14 Dasor

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 05:12 AM

Argh didn't read that! O_o

ok maybe the reason is that that card has a thread level of 40, if you reach that level then you should have some powerful cards.. if not then it's time to let one of your heroes die xD



#15 Bohemond

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 05:22 AM

On the bright side, it has 0 defense and only three life.  So, not only could a certain grey robed wizard take care of the bug before it became a problem, so could a hero like Dunhere.  The more enemies I see, the more I understand why Dunhere may be valuable. 



#16 PWBrian

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 05:23 AM

Dasor said:

Argh didn't read that! O_o

ok maybe the reason is that that card has a thread level of 40, if you reach that level then you should have some powerful cards.. if not then it's time to let one of your heroes die xD

If you don't have some strength in front of you by 40, I'm guessing you've got some serious problems.



#17 Narsil0420

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 09:36 AM

Good points, all around. There may be more than one way to skin a bee... Do we think that the Heroes' defense value will absorb some of the damage?



#18 Toqtamish

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 09:49 AM

Defense number is just the number to beat for the attack value. If its beat then the defender takes damage. So I doubt that will help with the Hummerhorns.



#19 Bohemond

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 10:20 AM

The ineffectiveness of the "defense" score against indirect (or, non-combat) damage, cuts both ways.  Thalin's ability, for instance, would be near useless if monsters got to apply their defense against it.



#20 Dasor

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 11:52 AM

Narsil0420 said:

Good points, all around. There may be more than one way to skin a bee... Do we think that the Heroes' defense value will absorb some of the damage?

 

character’s defense does not absorb damage from undefended
attacks or from card effects.

Page 18






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