Jump to content



Photo

Early Sympathizer card reveal in Exodus?


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 Anacreon

Anacreon

    Member

  • Members
  • 118 posts

Posted 29 March 2011 - 12:49 PM

When playing Exodus with the Sympathizer card in the Loyalty Deck (not using alternative loyalty cards), players who are executed before the sleeper phase draw a card from the Loyalty Deck, and so might draw the sympathizer card earlier than in the core game.  Is this revealed right away, or can the person wait "unrevealed" until the sleeper phase?  The card SAYS to reveal it immediately, but that was written when it was supposed to be a sleeper phase reveal, not earlier. 

One way this has made a difference in our games is because we play a House Rule variant: Instead of the Sympathizer Card, we use the Sympathetic Cylon Card and instead of always getting a Sympathetic Agenda card, the player may get a Hostile Agenda card if the resources are all blue at sleeper phase and a Sympathetic Agenda if anything is in the red.  Obviously, an early reveal means greater chance resources are still blue and the hostile agenda comes out but only because the reveal is early. 



#2 Skowza

Skowza

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,131 posts

Posted 29 March 2011 - 02:13 PM

Keep the Sympathizer or Sympathetic Cylon card out of the deck until you are ready to pass out the 2nd round of loyalty cards; at that point you can add it in and give em a quick shuffle.  This will prevent anyone from drawing it earlier than the Sleeper Phase.



#3 Anacreon

Anacreon

    Member

  • Members
  • 118 posts

Posted 29 March 2011 - 05:51 PM

But that is contrary to what the rules say - you build the loyalty deck at the outset with the Sympathizer card in the deck.  Then the rules for Exodus says "It is possible the card would be gained by a player before the sleeper phase" (p 4 of errata/FAQ).  But what it doesn't say is whether the player who gains the card reveals the card or not.  I can only assume the player does reveal the card because that's what the card says to do.



#4 antherem

antherem

    Member

  • Members
  • 71 posts

Posted 30 March 2011 - 02:51 AM

Anacreon said:

But that is contrary to what the rules say - you build the loyalty deck at the outset with the Sympathizer card in the deck.  Then the rules for Exodus says "It is possible the card would be gained by a player before the sleeper phase" (p 4 of errata/FAQ).  But what it doesn't say is whether the player who gains the card reveals the card or not.  I can only assume the player does reveal the card because that's what the card says to do.

Eh, that probably should have been spelled out in the FAQ, but I can't imagine anything but the most literal reading of the rules implying anything other than "when you get the Sympathizer card, reveal it."  The universal meta-rule for games with cards is that rules on cards always override rules in the rulebook.



#5 Kushiel

Kushiel

    Member

  • Members
  • 124 posts

Posted 30 March 2011 - 09:12 AM

antherem said:

The universal meta-rule for games with cards is that rules on cards always override rules in the rulebook.

In this case, there isn't even a rulebook rule for the card text to overrule.

Anacreon: Yes, you reveal the card as soon as you draw it.



#6 Skowza

Skowza

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,131 posts

Posted 01 April 2011 - 09:38 AM

Personally, I don't really like any of the options for this situation.  A human player can become a Sympathizer before they even get a turn if the wrong Crisis comes up.  But drawing it early and then holding the Sympathizer card until the onset of the Sleeper Phase isn't right either, which is why I made the suggestion to not add it until the Sleeper phase.



#7 James McMurray

James McMurray

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,228 posts

Posted 01 April 2011 - 09:01 PM

What's wrong about getting the sympathizer early? If anytyhing it's better than getting it late because there's much less chance of it making you a cylon so you can get the person out of the brig and continue with the game.



#8 EsnChilton

EsnChilton

    Member

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 15 December 2011 - 03:22 AM

I do not understand the logic behind putting the Sympathizer card into the Loyalty deck at the very begining of the game. If a player draws it from the get go, then they are a Cylon player.  Alot of the tention is gone because one of the Cylons is revealed already. My friends and I feel this defeats the purpose of the game.

So we ignore it. After all if it detracts from the fun of the game, then why play it? My friends and I will build a loyalty deck, pass out the initial cards, then add the Sympathizer card, as the original rules stated.

If anyone knows the rationale behind the errata stating that the Sympathizer card should be add at the begining of the game, please let me know.



#9 subochre

subochre

    Member

  • Members
  • 475 posts

Posted 18 December 2011 - 01:03 PM

One consideration is that having the sympathizer be the last card in the loyalty deck after the sleeper phase automatically kills all of the intrigue that you get from building the deck Exodus-style.  Everyone will know that all the cylon cards are out, that anyone who gets a new loyalty card has a 50% chance of being a sympathizer, that any such person who doesn't immediately reveal must've drawn a YANAC card, and so on.  So having the symp be dealt out early, while not great, at least reduces the chances of it coming out last.

At the same time (and somewhat contradictorily), the possibility of an early symp does heavily disincentivize pre-sleeper executions (and, for that matter, Personal Goals).  Which seems reasonable enough; it gives the cylons another benefit for killing people, and the colonials an even stronger reason to avoid it.

Still, I'm not sure whether any of these are good enough reasons for the change.



#10 EsnChilton

EsnChilton

    Member

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 20 December 2011 - 03:04 AM

I see your point. To be honest, we hadn't considered that eventuality. I'll be sure to bring it up with my players next time, thanks.



#11 LynchMob

LynchMob

    Member

  • Members
  • 72 posts

Posted 07 January 2012 - 11:02 AM

I am so confused with the sympathizer card. I got it passed to me during the sleeper phase, and had to reveal it. I was turned into a Cylon. (Because no resources were at ½. So, now I am an “Official”” Reveled Cylon player). But I’m a “Crippled” Cylon. I don’t understand how I can fight the humans since I get NO Super Crisis Card, and can not activate the Cylon fleet. Page 19 says : “This player may NEVER activate the “Cylon Fleet” or play a Super Crisis card”. Is this just the first turn I get “ousted” or for the rest of the game? If never get to use all the Cylon bonuses like fleet and Crisis cards…why bouther to be a sympathizer that turns into a crippled Cylon at all?



#12 LynchMob

LynchMob

    Member

  • Members
  • 72 posts

Posted 07 January 2012 - 11:05 AM

LynchMob said:

I am so confused with the sympathizer card. I got it passed to me during the sleeper phase, and had to reveal it. I was turned into a Cylon. (Because no resources were at ½. So, now I am an “Official”” Reveled Cylon player). But I’m a “Crippled” Cylon. I don’t understand how I can fight the humans since I get NO Super Crisis Card, and can not activate the Cylon fleet. Page 19 says : “This player may NEVER activate the “Cylon Fleet” or play a Super Crisis card”. Is this just the first turn I get “ousted” or for the rest of the game? If never get to use all the Cylon bonuses like fleet and Crisis cards…why bouther to be a sympathizer that turns into a crippled Cylon at all?

 

 

Please do not quote me EXODUS or PEGASUS, I’m running the basic game only right now.



#13 xris

xris

    Member

  • Members
  • 140 posts

Posted 07 January 2012 - 11:31 PM

LynchMob said:

I am so confused with the sympathizer card. I got it passed to me during the sleeper phase, and had to reveal it. I was turned into a Cylon. (Because no resources were at ½. So, now I am an “Official”” Reveled Cylon player). But I’m a “Crippled” Cylon. I don’t understand how I can fight the humans since I get NO Super Crisis Card, and can not activate the Cylon fleet. Page 19 says : “This player may NEVER activate the “Cylon Fleet” or play a Super Crisis card”. Is this just the first turn I get “ousted” or for the rest of the game? If never get to use all the Cylon bonuses like fleet and Crisis cards…why bouther to be a sympathizer that turns into a crippled Cylon at all?

OK, so you don't get a Super Crisis Card. That is used once, so that would mean you don't get that function for one turn. It's not like a Cylon player can ever play more than one of these in a game anyway.

You don't get to activate the Cylon Fleet location. Fair enough, you will have to rely on your fellow Cylon player to do that when needed.

What else is there for you to do? How about activating the Caprica location (draw 2 Crisis cards, choose 1 to resolve) or the Human Fleet location (Steal a Skill card and try and damage Galactica). You also get to play a card each Skill check.

It's not as if you have nothing to do, you are still involved in the game, the only real drawback is that you can't activate the Cylon Fleet and you don't get the one-use Super Crisis card. Activating Caprica (Crisis cards) and the Human Fleet location isn't trivial or ineffective to the Cylon cause.

If you find this unacceptable, why are you playing BSG



#14 LynchMob

LynchMob

    Member

  • Members
  • 72 posts

Posted 08 January 2012 - 04:46 AM

xris said:

LynchMob said:

I am so confused with the sympathizer card. I got it passed to me during the sleeper phase, and had to reveal it. I was turned into a Cylon. (Because no resources were at ½. So, now I am an “Official”” Reveled Cylon player). But I’m a “Crippled” Cylon. I don’t understand how I can fight the humans since I get NO Super Crisis Card, and can not activate the Cylon fleet. Page 19 says : “This player may NEVER activate the “Cylon Fleet” or play a Super Crisis card”. Is this just the first turn I get “ousted” or for the rest of the game? If never get to use all the Cylon bonuses like fleet and Crisis cards…why bouther to be a sympathizer that turns into a crippled Cylon at all?

 

OK, so you don't get a Super Crisis Card. That is used once, so that would mean you don't get that function for one turn. It's not like a Cylon player can ever play more than one of these in a game anyway.

You don't get to activate the Cylon Fleet location. Fair enough, you will have to rely on your fellow Cylon player to do that when needed.

What else is there for you to do? How about activating the Caprica location (draw 2 Crisis cards, choose 1 to resolve) or the Human Fleet location (Steal a Skill card and try and damage Galactica). You also get to play a card each Skill check.

It's not as if you have nothing to do, you are still involved in the game, the only real drawback is that you can't activate the Cylon Fleet and you don't get the one-use Super Crisis card. Activating Caprica (Crisis cards) and the Human Fleet location isn't trivial or ineffective to the Cylon cause.

If you find this unacceptable, why are you playing BSG

[/QUOI am ass/u/me ing that the smiley face was a joke, I’m playing it for the first time ever and am trying to figure out how the rules and how to play works. I don’t know how my strategy will go now, I’m not working with the fleet anymore-and I was really hoping that h I would not become a Cylon, I wanted to stay human…but oh well. I was just confused by the way it was worded ... I “Become” a Cylon, but I’m not really one I’m a human who switched sides , and like Benedict Arnold, even the British didn’t trust him after that. So I guess the “Real” Cylons are going to treat me weird.
Now, you are right, there IS another Unrevealed Cylon in the game right now, and until they reveal, I’m fighting on my own w/o certain powers.

Question: secrecy rule states that even Cylons can’t show each other cards, but can an unrevealed Cylon secretly tell a Cylon player they are now working FOR them. Because everyone HAS to keep their cards secret at all times, unless “Detector” or something. What do you think?
TE]



#15 LynchMob

LynchMob

    Member

  • Members
  • 72 posts

Posted 08 January 2012 - 04:46 AM

I am ass/u/me ing that the smiley face was a joke, I’m playing it for the first time ever and am trying to figure out how the rules and how to play works. I don’t know how my strategy will go now, I’m not working with the fleet anymore-and I was really hoping that h I would not become a Cylon, I wanted to stay human…but oh well. I was just confused by the way it was worded ... I “Become” a Cylon, but I’m not really one I’m a human who switched sides , and like Benedict Arnold, even the British didn’t trust him after that. So I guess the “Real” Cylons are going to treat me weird.
Now, you are right, there IS another Unrevealed Cylon in the game right now, and until they reveal, I’m fighting on my own w/o certain powers.

 

Question: secrecy rule states that even Cylons can’t show each other cards, but can an unrevealed Cylon secretly tell a Cylon player they are now working FOR them. Because everyone HAS to keep their cards secret at all times, unless “Detector” or something. What do you think?
 



#16 Anacreon

Anacreon

    Member

  • Members
  • 118 posts

Posted 09 January 2012 - 04:56 PM

You are correct: secrecy rules dictate that the unrevealed cylon should not let the revealed cylon/sympathizer know in any way - no overt way and no covert way, like knowing looks or winks or kicks under the table.  In theory, two *unrevealed* cylons might find one another out (say, by one being given the chance to look at the other's loyalty card and falsely indicating humanity) and no one else would know, but once someone is revealed, they won't be given that chance anymore.  They would have to figure it out by other means, or wait to find out, like all the humans. 



#17 LynchMob

LynchMob

    Member

  • Members
  • 72 posts

Posted 12 January 2012 - 05:06 AM

Anacreon said:

You are correct: secrecy rules dictate that the unrevealed cylon should not let the revealed cylon/sympathizer know in any way - no overt way and no covert way, like knowing looks or winks or kicks under the table.  In theory, two *unrevealed* cylons might find one another out (say, by one being given the chance to look at the other's loyalty card and falsely indicating humanity) and no one else would know, but once someone is revealed, they won't be given that chance anymore.  They would have to figure it out by other means, or wait to find out, like all the humans. 

 

 

 

 

 

Kool Thanks.






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS