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Anybody have a set list?


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#1 qwertyuiop

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 04:05 PM

I need to know whether to pre-order two core sets or three! Does anyone know how many copies of the cards are going to be included in the core set? I imagine the decks won't be 30 card decks with 3 copies of ten cards each, but if FFG would like to strategically leak a setlist.... 



#2 jhaelen

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 09:19 PM

qwertyuiop said:

I need to know whether to pre-order two core sets or three! Does anyone know how many copies of the cards are going to be included in the core set? I imagine the decks won't be 30 card decks with 3 copies of ten cards each, but if FFG would like to strategically leak a setlist.... 

Consider the following quote from the rules manual:

Leadership (cards 13-27; heroes Aragorn, Glóin,
Théodred)
Tactics (cards 28-42; heroes Legolas, Gimli, Thalin)
Spirit (cards 43-57; heroes Éowyn, Dunhere, Eleanor)
Lore (cards 58-72; heroes Glorfindel, Denethor,
Beravor)
Each starter deck should also include 1 copy of the
neutral ally card, Gandalf (card 73).

As you can see from the card numbers, each deck will contain 16 distinct cards. So, on average, every deck will contain two copies of every card. It's already known from previews that of some cards there will only be a single copy, some two copies and some three copies, and at least the Gandalf card will even come in four copies.



#3 Toqtamish

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 12:46 AM

Gandalf in 4 is not for sure considering the starter box is designed for 1-2 players and therefore he might only be 2 as the its assumed only 2 decks would be in use at any one time. At this point we cannot really say for sure 100% either way.



#4 BeardFan

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 01:56 AM

Our preview copy of the final German version had 4 Gandalfs. 



#5 pauloswolf

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 03:49 AM

I can´t understand WHY Fantasy Flight still does it (1-3 copies of the cards). All the new expansions of Warhammer Invasion comes with 3 copies of each card.

Why don´t expend a little more money in one core set complete with 3 copies of each card, so I do not have to burn my money with 4-6 copies of cards I will only use 3 of them!!!!!

Why such greed?

 

This makes me think twice before starting playing this game...



#6 Toqtamish

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 04:02 AM

I can´t understand WHY Fantasy Flight still does it (1-3 copies of the cards). All the new expansions of Warhammer Invasion comes with 3 copies of each card.

Why don´t expend a little more money in one core set complete with 3 copies of each card, so I do not have to burn my money with 4-6 copies of cards I will only use 3 of them!!!!!

Why such greed?

 

This makes me think twice before starting playing this game...

 

This has come up and been answered dozens of times for the other LCG's, because of one simple fact. the core sets need variety. If you had 3 of each card there would be a lot less variety of cards in the boxes. Even the Warhammer core set has some 1s and 2s in it. All the core sets do. Warhammer has pretty much always except the first cycle had the new 3 of format but the core sets never will have that. And you do not need 3 of every card in any of the LCG's. There is quite a few cards you don't want 3 of in a deck. And you said it yourself the expansions have the 3 of. Just like Lord of the Rings expansions will. And unlike any LCG before it LotR will never have the older format of 10 cards with 1 copy and 10 cards with 3 copies, they will always be multiples of.

It is not greed as you surmise. Its due to the fact that core sets are introductions to the games and they need a wide variety of stuff more than they need multiples. I only have one copy of Warhammer core set and that never stopped me from playing or doing well in tournaments either. There are people out there that only own the core sets and I am sure they don't care if there is 3 of every card.



#7 qwertyuiop

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 06:28 AM

jhaelen said:

 

Consider the following quote from the rules manual:

 

Leadership (cards 13-27; heroes Aragorn, Glóin,
Théodred)
Tactics (cards 28-42; heroes Legolas, Gimli, Thalin)
Spirit (cards 43-57; heroes Éowyn, Dunhere, Eleanor)
Lore (cards 58-72; heroes Glorfindel, Denethor,
Beravor)
Each starter deck should also include 1 copy of the
neutral ally card, Gandalf (card 73).

As you can see from the card numbers, each deck will contain 16 distinct cards. So, on average, every deck will contain two copies of every card. It's already known from previews that of some cards there will only be a single copy, some two copies and some three copies, and at least the Gandalf card will even come in four copies.

I imagine the heroes are included with the card numbering. I was 100% certain that the core set was not going to have full play sets of everything.  I was wondering if anyone has been able to demo the game to verify copies. I'm ready to buy three copies upon release, if not for all the cards, then to at least be able to lend a copy to friends to increase player base.



#8 Toqtamish

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 06:32 AM

Two is usually a safe number for core sets.

If their numbering traditions hold the characters will all be grouped together more likely than with their respective decks. But that is based on the other two LCG's I collect.



#9 pauloswolf

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 07:34 AM

Toqtamish said:

pauloswolf said:

I can´t understand WHY Fantasy Flight still does it (1-3 copies of the cards). All the new expansions of Warhammer Invasion comes with 3 copies of each card.

Why don´t expend a little more money in one core set complete with 3 copies of each card, so I do not have to burn my money with 4-6 copies of cards I will only use 3 of them!!!!!

Why such greed?

 

This makes me think twice before starting playing this game...

 

This has come up and been answered dozens of times for the other LCG's, because of one simple fact. the core sets need variety. If you had 3 of each card there would be a lot less variety of cards in the boxes. Even the Warhammer core set has some 1s and 2s in it. All the core sets do. Warhammer has pretty much always except the first cycle had the new 3 of format but the core sets never will have that. And you do not need 3 of every card in any of the LCG's. There is quite a few cards you don't want 3 of in a deck. And you said it yourself the expansions have the 3 of. Just like Lord of the Rings expansions will. And unlike any LCG before it LotR will never have the older format of 10 cards with 1 copy and 10 cards with 3 copies, they will always be multiples of.

It is not greed as you surmise. Its due to the fact that core sets are introductions to the games and they need a wide variety of stuff more than they need multiples. I only have one copy of Warhammer core set and that never stopped me from playing or doing well in tournaments either. There are people out there that only own the core sets and I am sure they don't care if there is 3 of every card.

 

So, that´s exactly for this we have something called expansions, to have more variety. I am sure you will not have a good game with only the core set.

In another hand, I am a card game collector, so I do like to have 3 copies of each card, nobody knows when I will build a deck with those extremely weird cards. I don´t play for Tournaments, I play for fun and for the strategy.

Sorry for having you to answer a dozen times.



#10 pauloswolf

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 07:43 AM

pauloswolf said:

Toqtamish said:

 

pauloswolf said:

 

I can´t understand WHY Fantasy Flight still does it (1-3 copies of the cards). All the new expansions of Warhammer Invasion comes with 3 copies of each card.

Why don´t expend a little more money in one core set complete with 3 copies of each card, so I do not have to burn my money with 4-6 copies of cards I will only use 3 of them!!!!!

Why such greed?

 

This makes me think twice before starting playing this game...

 

 

This has come up and been answered dozens of times for the other LCG's, because of one simple fact. the core sets need variety. If you had 3 of each card there would be a lot less variety of cards in the boxes. Even the Warhammer core set has some 1s and 2s in it. All the core sets do. Warhammer has pretty much always except the first cycle had the new 3 of format but the core sets never will have that. And you do not need 3 of every card in any of the LCG's. There is quite a few cards you don't want 3 of in a deck. And you said it yourself the expansions have the 3 of. Just like Lord of the Rings expansions will. And unlike any LCG before it LotR will never have the older format of 10 cards with 1 copy and 10 cards with 3 copies, they will always be multiples of.

It is not greed as you surmise. Its due to the fact that core sets are introductions to the games and they need a wide variety of stuff more than they need multiples. I only have one copy of Warhammer core set and that never stopped me from playing or doing well in tournaments either. There are people out there that only own the core sets and I am sure they don't care if there is 3 of every card.

 

 

 

So, that´s exactly for this we have something called expansions, to have more variety. I am sure you will not have a good game with only the core set.

In another hand, I am a card game collector, so I do like to have 3 copies of each card, nobody knows when I will build a deck with those extremely weird cards. I don´t play for Tournaments, I play for fun and for the strategy.

Sorry for having you to answer a dozen times.

 

I forgot something: I am sure that there will be cards you will really want in your deck that will come only in 1-2 copies...



#11 pauloswolf

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 07:46 AM

pauloswolf said:

pauloswolf said:

 

Toqtamish said:

 

pauloswolf said:

 

I can´t understand WHY Fantasy Flight still does it (1-3 copies of the cards). All the new expansions of Warhammer Invasion comes with 3 copies of each card.

Why don´t expend a little more money in one core set complete with 3 copies of each card, so I do not have to burn my money with 4-6 copies of cards I will only use 3 of them!!!!!

Why such greed?

 

This makes me think twice before starting playing this game...

 

 

This has come up and been answered dozens of times for the other LCG's, because of one simple fact. the core sets need variety. If you had 3 of each card there would be a lot less variety of cards in the boxes. Even the Warhammer core set has some 1s and 2s in it. All the core sets do. Warhammer has pretty much always except the first cycle had the new 3 of format but the core sets never will have that. And you do not need 3 of every card in any of the LCG's. There is quite a few cards you don't want 3 of in a deck. And you said it yourself the expansions have the 3 of. Just like Lord of the Rings expansions will. And unlike any LCG before it LotR will never have the older format of 10 cards with 1 copy and 10 cards with 3 copies, they will always be multiples of.

It is not greed as you surmise. Its due to the fact that core sets are introductions to the games and they need a wide variety of stuff more than they need multiples. I only have one copy of Warhammer core set and that never stopped me from playing or doing well in tournaments either. There are people out there that only own the core sets and I am sure they don't care if there is 3 of every card.

 

 

 

So, that´s exactly for this we have something called expansions, to have more variety. I am sure you will not have a good game with only the core set.

In another hand, I am a card game collector, so I do like to have 3 copies of each card, nobody knows when I will build a deck with those extremely weird cards. I don´t play for Tournaments, I play for fun and for the strategy.

Sorry for having you to answer a dozen times.

 

 

 

I forgot something: I am sure that there will be cards you will really want in your deck that will come only in 1-2 copies...

Just the last thing: Why can´t we have variety if they put 3 copies of all cards? the core set would be a little bigger, only this a little expensive, but I am sure not as expensive as I have to buy 2 Core Sets.



#12 Toqtamish

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 08:06 AM

holy posts, one would have been fine. you can always edit afterwards.

The whole reason they don't want them bigger is to keep the costs down. We will never see core sets with 3 of every card. Core sets are intended as an introductory product.

And yes you can have absolutely great games with just a single core set of any of the LCG's.



#13 jhaelen

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 10:48 AM

qwertyuiop said:

I imagine the heroes are included with the card numbering. I was 100% certain that the core set was not going to have full play sets of everything.  I was wondering if anyone has been able to demo the game to verify copies. I'm ready to buy three copies upon release, if not for all the cards, then to at least be able to lend a copy to friends to increase player base.
The heroes are numbered 1-12. It's a bit difficult to tell since the resolution of the card images is low, but I think Aragorn has the number 1.

The core set doesn't have full play sets in the sense that it's only 30 cards per deck. Tournament decks must include a minimum of 50 cards. The core set is meant to be an introduction to the game, so the decks are smaller.

The German preview version Beardfan has played was a complete core set, i.e. it had exactly the cards we will get in the product version of the core set.

Myself, I'll introduce the game to my fellow gamers using a single core set for up to four players first. I hope someone gets hooked and will get a second core set. I imagine I might eventually want a second core set, but not before I've seen all the cards from the first AP cycle. I doubt I'd ever want a third one, though, even if there are cards I end up having only two copies of.



#14 Toqtamish

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 11:42 AM

I have two copies of the Game of Thrones core set only. I play that alot and very competitively so wanted the extra cards. But cannot see myself ever getting 3 of any core sets. I will get one for LotR and maybe eventually 2 if it seems useful but might not be necessary with the difference in game style.



#15 servant of the secret fire

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 01:30 PM

My two best friends will buy one copy of the core set each.Together we wil have 3 core sets and there is no need for me to buy multiply boxes.

If you are as lucky as i am with your friends then you dont need to buy 2 or 3 boxes for your self.



#16 Mighty Jim

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 12:03 AM

Keep the Core set cheap enough to be accessible. definitely. As much as I'll get annoyed about needing to buy multiple sets to get duplicates of cards, I'd rather that, than have no opponents, because the core set is £100 and nobody will buy it.

The one thing I do find disappointing, particularly with something like AGOT is that you can't get a "cards-only" version of the Core Set. A way of getting duplicates of the cards without another board, set of plastic pieces etc. Appart from the money and the Power tokens (both easy enough to proxy) I never use them anyway, why would I want 3 sets.

Hopefully, with the differing types of cards, and differents needs for them in LOTR, this won't be such a problem with this game.



#17 pumpkin

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 02:29 AM

Mighty Jim said:

 

The one thing I do find disappointing, particularly with something like AGOT is that you can't get a "cards-only" version of the Core Set. A way of getting duplicates of the cards without another board, set of plastic pieces etc. Appart from the money and the Power tokens (both easy enough to proxy) I never use them anyway, why would I want 3 sets.

 

 

It seems to me that there would be ample buyers of such a cards only core set expansion, to bring up copies of all 3 players cards to 3, for any and all of the current LCGS?

Perhaps though if the only alternative is for players to buy multiple copies of the (more expensive) core set, the lack of such an expansion isn't totally surprising...



#18 Toqtamish

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 03:16 AM

There was only a few cards I wanted 3 of in AGoT, I just bought them in singles on ebay. One of the players on the AGoT board bought extra core sets and sold them as singles on ebay.

As for LotR, I think with the difference in game play and style it will be less of an issue. And sharing with friends who also own a core set would make it even easier since the game is cooperative either they will be using the extra card you wanted/needed to have or they can lend it to you for that game.



#19 pumpkin

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 06:09 AM

 

Yer, the point being though if FFG have ruled that for tournament decks a maximum of 3 cards of any particular card can be in the deck, there should really be a realitvely simple and cost effective way for people to get 3 of each card that doesn't involve them buying multiple copies of core sets ending up with unneccessary duplicates, borrowing from friends etc.

They really improved this with the LCG format, compared to the CCG format (and even the LCG format was improved with later expansion packs always being duplicates of 3, rather than the set up of some of the earlier epxansino for CoC, for instance), and they have got their expansion packs just right now so that there is "no waste" but they still haven't come up with a practical way for players to get 3 cards from the core set without waste (or the need to sell waste on e-bay).

I can see that the game can be enjoyed without having 3 duplicates of cards from the core set and some playersm ay not even see the need, but the option should be there, surely?

 

 

 



#20 Toqtamish

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 06:19 AM

Maybe using the new print on demand service they started with Death Angel.






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