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Who has the fewest ships in the warp?


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#1 BlueWolf

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 08:38 PM

I had a really frustrating game tonight. The special destiny card that says encounter the person with the fewest ships in the warp came up.

I had 1 ship in the warp

the person to my left had 0 ships in the warp

The other 4 people in the game said that I had the fewest ships in the warp. Because I was the person with the fewest ships that were physically in the warp whereas the person with 0 ships did not physically have ships in the warp.

In their minds 1 is the fewest ships that you can have in the warp. Because they don't have any "IN" the warp, and the card says fewest ships "IN" the warp.

This if frustrating for a few reasons:

0 is a number.

You could say that I have more ships in the warp than him and everybody agrees, but if I have more ships in the warp than he has, then he HAS to have less then me right? everybody disagrees.

The 3 special destiny cards in my opinion were designed to target someone who is an advantage. The person with the most forign colonies has an advantage, the person with the most cards has an advantage, so then why would the third card target someone who does not have the advantage?

How could you even write the card, if you wanted it to count the person who has 0 ships in the warp without referencing the warp itself?

How can this kind of reasoning make cents to these people? This is the kind of thing that you learn when you are three years old people which is less 0 or 1? Answer: 0

Which is less in the warp 0 or 1? Answer: 1 WTF? So does the word "in" magically turn everyones brain off?



#2 crimhead

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 09:35 PM

Zero of something is fewer than one of something.



#3 mastabou

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 05:03 AM

Zero is definitely fewer than one.  If only one player has zero ships in the warp, THEY have the fewest.  If two or more players have zero, then you follow the directions on the card and the first player to the left with zero ships would be chosen.



#4 MimeKirby

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 10:43 AM

So let me get this straight...

They say you have more ships in the warp than the person who has none, yet they also say he doesn't have less than you...

This basically means:

  • Your ships in warp > Their ships in warp (1 > 0)
  • Your ships in warp < Their ships in warp (1 < 0)

It should be obvious that only one of these can be correct, since they contradict eachother. Also, greater than/less than comparisons can ALWAYS be reversed (ie. "Your ships > Their ships" can also be "Their ships < Your ships")

Simply put: You're right, they're wrong (Zero ships is still an amount of ships).



#5 Delobius

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 09:29 AM

Find some new people to play with. That's just retarded.



#6 BlueWolf

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 01:12 PM

Ya it was pretty frustrating at the time. I tried to use the whole you cant have more than someone if he doesn't have less than you thing but they had already made up their minds. I will make sure to clarify that card before i play again.



#7 NidoKing

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 09:08 PM

 wow yea that IS frustrating. Sounds like you used sound logic and they were just being stubborn and sticking to their guns for no reason.



#8 xagyg

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 12:36 PM

Make a list of all players and their corresponding number of ships in the warp. That should do it. If they have done grade 1 math they should recognise that 0 is less than 1.

You cannot explain things to fools using logic.  Hmmm... i wonder if you were playing a Lunatic, Loser and Grudge.      (just kidding).

Sounds like they were not only hand managing, but player managing!  

 



#9 Kobold Curry Chef

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 01:02 PM

If your friends are baffled by that, their brains will simply disintegrate when they have to figure out the truly tricky stuff in Cosmic Encounter. You have my sympathy.



#10 Seren

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Posted 13 April 2011 - 09:19 AM

Maybe they just haven't discovered zero in that part of the galaxy yet.



#11 xagyg

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Posted 13 April 2011 - 02:24 PM

Seren said:

Maybe they just haven't discovered zero in that part of the galaxy yet.

Good point. We shouldn't rule it out the possibility.



#12 LivinItUp

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 06:07 AM

 Don't feel bad.  I had the exact same argument with my girlfriend and our married friends the other night when we all played the game for the first time.  We played two 4-player games, and in both games, they failed to budge.  They insisted that "in the warp" applied only to those players with ships in the warp.  I first asked them each this question:

"How many ships do you have in the warp?"

One of them replied, "Zero," while the others (including myself) replied with a number greater than zero, mine being the lowest.  I then asked:

"So, who has the fewest ships in the warp?"

Their reply:  "You!"

<reading comprehension failed>

I then mentioned the Special Destiny cards are designed to target the leader, to prevent him from running away with the game.  They still wouldn't budge.  No matter what, I had the fewest ships in the warp.  Utterly frustrating.  Now that I have official clarification, they'll all have some crow to eat the next time we play.  :-)



#13 TheDukester

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 01:19 PM

Delobius said:

Find some new people to play with. That's just retarded.

+1,000.

You need new friends.

The example you provided is truly one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of. And please tell those idiots I said so.



#14 TheImp

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 08:37 AM

Obviously 0 is the fewest. If it were 1 and there were no ships at all in the warp then the destiny card would be useless and you would not be able to have an encounter that turn.



#15 GravitysAngel

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 08:13 AM

 You should have said, "If i had 5 ships in the warp and everyone else had 0, i still have the fewest? Then I have 0 foreign bases. As you've pointed out, 0 is not less than 5, therefore I've already won."



#16 GrimJester

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 04:33 PM

Without being mean, what other people have said is correct.  Your friends don't seem to be a good fit for this game.  If they're going to argue about that, just wait until something truly confusing emerges during a game.

On a related note, sometimes, just to have a good time, and move the game along, it's better to object to the majority, make a note of it for later, and play it out with the "modified" rules.



#17 Gumshoe_nr1

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 11:51 PM

Funny thing, same thing has happened to me.
I play with people that takes games seriously and we play very advance games and can easily take a break for calculation and discuss rules. But with this specific issue the majority thought that "none" is not a number, so "I dont have "fewer", I have none". 
I guess you could argue that from a enginering point of view, that if for example a variable has NOT been given a value, you cant compare it to another value, but I argued that "you have zero"... eventually I won, everybody thinking "douchebag" for rest of the game.

But most important I agree with GrimJester.
Important thing is almost to keep the game going, have fun and correct it later.
 






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