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#1 dj2.0

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 08:18 PM

and its not a rules question per se:

The Keepers task is not to hammer the investigation, but to build the threat and atmosphere of the game appropriately, directing the story like a good film director or storyteller.

Discuss.



#2 Acererak

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 10:21 PM

Well, your statement sounds more appropiate for the Call of Cthulhu RPG than for this game. I wish it was like that, but in the end this is just a boardgame, with all the goods and bads of being so.

 

There is some room for Keeper building some atmosphere though, and all the flavor text in clues and combat cards helps to do so. It can be more enjoyable experience and take the game a step further, specially if you are a RPGer.

 

But in the end, this is a game about winning, and the Keeper has to hammer investigators (mainly) to do so. Anticipate them, and mislead them. So he is playig against them. But a little atmosphere creation is possible and welcomed indeed, and gives this game a unique touch hard to find in others.

 

I am quite satisfied so far in that regard

 



#3 Ivan Kerensky

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 11:46 PM

 Keeper is not Game Master.

But I agree he have to provide flavor text reading and atmosphere, wich is not incompatible with competitive play.



#4 Elbi

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 12:02 AM

Reading through the rule book, it reminds me of the old GW board games. Hero & Space Quest, really. There always *were* winning conditions for both sides, players and big bad, but really it was much more about narrative. I get the feeling that "how the evil player can win" in board games is just there to make sure that

- non-RPGers want to try being The Evil Player
- bad GMs don't bore players by letting them win too easily (because YOU HAVE TO WIIIIIN!)
- if you WANT to be brutally competitive you CAN (but you don't have to)
- both sides gain something by winning games (better equipment or at least feel "winning" - in RPGs a total wipe usually feels bad for everyone)

If you WANT to play the Keeper as "just another player who fights against everyone and anyone", you sure can.
I don't think that I'll be player that role unless my player base really wants me too. Basically by annoying me or not-wanting-to-listen-to-the-narrative. If they want a dungeon crawl, they'll get one...

Just my 2 cents as someone who got into FFG games from P&P RPGs ;)

 

PS: It all boils down to one thing. I spent 80 € on this game - If I kill of the investigators within mere minutes, I guess I won't play MoM often enough to be worth that expenditure. Let them have fun while struggling, maybe wipe them at the end of the story, but don't crush them just because I can. If I can.
[This part is not as serious as the rest of the post.]



#5 Khaunshar

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 12:53 AM

Hit them hard, hit them fast.... but dont kill them off.

In my experience, as soon as you have a few players who played a couple rounds already (we have 2 veterans now), they read your actions, figure out your options, and are familiar with the possibilities of your mythos cards.

In my experience, the Keeper is actually in a weaker position against knowledgable players who act tactically sound, and with a good setup of investigators (usually meaning no Harvey Walters in my opinion). Also, familiarity with the combat decks vastly increases your ability to shift the right weapons to the proper characters, making the investigators VERY capable of taking down almost anything within a round or two.

As Keeper, I thus started to unleash a very specific part of my arsenal early on, to scare them early and maybe persuade them to play carefully, stick together more closely than needed, and generally waste time. In most scenarios, time is on the Keepers side anyway, and making the investigators waste a lot of time makes it much more likely to win, AND creates a long and often close-run game for everyone involved.

After my initial onslaught, I hold back a little, and just hinder them along the way here and there. I rarely go for their equipment until I know who is going to use it, and I also try and weaken them across the board, not kill them.... because a respawned Michael McGlen in the lategame can REALLY hurt your game.

In the end, I then unleash my often 10+ threat, and usually play entirely different abilities (if possible) than in the beginning, so they are caught off guard.

IMO, the most reliable win as a Keeper is playing the long game, which coincidentially creates for the more fun playing experience for the Investigators too, when they keep running around thinking they still have a chance against evil ....



#6 valvorik

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 01:10 AM

My view is to bring over to this boardgame my view of RPG's.

The Keeper/GM is not a dancing monkey to entertain nor sole engineer responsible for everything.  They are a player with a particular role (in this game including trying to win) and all players should be playing their role thematically, evocatively, to enhance others' fun and not step on others' fun etc. - not just the Keeper/GM.

Rob



#7 dj2.0

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 09:29 AM

For the record, 'Keeper' was first used in Chaosiums rpg as a term for the gamemaster. I dont see any difference between board and rpg games being an issue here, what I am talking about is gamesmanship. Yes there is a goal to win, but should that take priority over having a good (i,e fun) game for everyone? If you put the Shoggoth on the table in turn 3 of the game and your investigators have never played before you are playing the rules of the game but there is no gamesmanship.



#8 Elbi

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 11:56 AM

dj2.0 said:

should that take priority over having a good (i,e fun) game for everyone?

 

Never, ever, in any game. If you ask me, that is. I don't play tabletop games to win, but to have fun. If winning is included in the fun, hell yeah. If not, well, who cares, as long as there were enough explosions or heroic actions. The same with RPGs, of course, and board games, no matter which ones.*

If I want to WIN, I'd be at a casino.

 

* I still win, at any game, occasionally. Even some results where the enemy is seriously crushed. But this doesn't happen because I crush him without remorse.



#9 Acererak

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 12:11 PM

Elbi said:

dj2.0 said:

should that take priority over having a good (i,e fun) game for everyone?

 

Never, ever, in any game. If you ask me, that is. I don't play tabletop games to win, but to have fun. If winning is included in the fun, hell yeah. If not, well, who cares, as long as there were enough explosions or heroic actions. The same with RPGs, of course, and board games, no matter which ones.*

If I want to WIN, I'd be at a casino.

 

* I still win, at any game, occasionally. Even some results where the enemy is seriously crushed. But this doesn't happen because I crush him without remorse.

 

Well, I actually agree with you completely and in my personal case, having fun is always above winning when playing with friends, boardgames or whatever.

 

But there is an undoubtly difference between a boardgame that is competitive (as MoM) and an RPG, which most of the times and with rare exceptions (good old Paranoia...)is a cooperative experience where the Keeper (or DM) plays just the role of moderator, storyteller and conductor of a story that everyone is helping to build. I would love for MoM to be the latest, and although to a certain extent, everyone can also put in something to build the atmosphere, it is not the case. In this game you play to win, with your own objectives and strategies and tools to achieve them. You have a specific goal. Of course, you can always forget about it if you prefer to do so and enjoy more the storytelling part, but then I would suggest to just go ahead and pick up any RPG which in the end, will have far less constraints than any boardgame in the world to build a good story.



#10 Elbi

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 12:32 PM

I think I'm sending the wrong message here. To elaborate:
I'm not against the Keeper trying to fulfill his/her objective at all! If the objective is to kill all investigators and the story is set up so it's not easy for the Keeper to do so, then of course I'd try everthing to hurt them. If the investigators become veterans and KNOW how to evade damage, of course I'll switch to more evil tricks. But what I'll try to do in every game is "let them have a fair chance"!

If I see they're noobing around, I won't crush them just because I can, since I wouldn't like to be crushed either.
If there's an exploit (hullo monster with samples and locked door!) I won't use it, as long as I know it IS an exploit.
If there's a freaky way to create a Shoggoth at turn 3, I won't just because I can, unless it's what the story demands from me.
If there are any problems like the "there are no more puzzle pieces to create the door lock the investigators have to flee through" bug someone posted yesterday, I'll try to fix it.
Because I don't want to punish players unnecessarily.

(I don't know about the objectives, clues or events yet, because I don't want to spoiler myself too much and because this might offer too many possibilities for metagaming.)

Of course, if I get rushed by them because they know everything and use the best possible investigators for every situation, I'll switch over to being more mean. But that's balancing - I don't want to bore them now! And just because they have fun doesn't mean they always win ;)

 

About me: early 90s board games, years later tabletop and RPGs, then back to board games, mainly those from FFG. So... yeah, RPGs might be a perfect fit, but I want to keep what I learned there ;)



#11 Acererak

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 01:24 PM

This is getting interesting :-)

 

I believe there can be a tendency to consider this game as an RPG when it is not. It is a good try at designing something in between, I would say. And I love that as an avid RPGer myself. But if you forget that this is a boardgame, and that differs from RPGs tremendously, you might get frustrated but what you will find in your game sessions. Or mabybe not, who knows. If you start house ruling and your group loves to play this as an RPG, and it works for you, then hooray for you!

 

The Keeper of this game is not like the Keeper of an RPG anyway. And the starting discussion motto proposed it defined it as so. I don´t agree to it. The Keeper in this game is not the moderator, and if you pretend to be, then you will find problems difficult to solve, because the rest of players know you have your own agenda, your own objectives to win the game, and they can fell cheated. Keeper is not here to be the director of the game, he is one more player, but with different objectives and tools to win the game than Investigators.

 

Don´t forget you have a great advantage over the other players : you know how to win from the very begining and how to prevent that from happening for your opponents. On the other had, the Investigators need to find out how to win. The game is a race, and the Keeper needs to hamper Investigators so they don´t find the way to win until is just a bit too late. There is a story involved, but more like a setting than as the main conductor of the game. In the end, the deduction process is almost non existent : you go from A to B, then to C, then to D. You find the key to open door B in A, and for door C in B. It´s the most basic structure of the most basic RPG game on earth. Like the old D&D adventures. And I find that great but trying not to forget what this is : a boardgame.

 

If you pretend this to be what it is not, you might either get frustrated yourself as a player, or end up annoying the rest of your group by considering you want to have more power over the game than you should.



#12 Elbi

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 02:15 PM

Yeah, I see what you mean. This definitely got interesting ;)

Well, Story 1 is scheduled for sunday, full group with 5 players with a broad background of RPGs and board games, so I guess I'll see how much effort they demand from me. If I have to go "all in" all the time, then yeah, there's no need to try to balance the game on the fly, really!

I always get thrown out of the loop when I think about the fact that one sides knows how to win while keeping the others from winning, while the other side doesn't know anything at all. I imagine the Keeper pulling some really evil (and boring) tricks like stacking hordes of minions at [That Place] so nobody can go there anymore without being devoured... but then, maybe the game doesn't allow that anyway. I'll see soon!

MoM is absolutely no RPG, that's for sure. It borrows heavily FROM RPGs and that's what might make it much more awesome, but "answer some questions, read the stuff we printed on cards"? No, that's no real roleplaying. I just like the distinction between
- "Keeper = Power Player out to win ASAP" and
- "Keeper = Player who tries to win while keeping the others challenged" :)

I'd better stop posting now and wait for sunday night, after gathering some first hand experience!



#13 Acererak

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 02:35 PM

Elbi said:

Yeah, I see what you mean. This definitely got interesting ;)

Well, Story 1 is scheduled for sunday, full group with 5 players with a broad background of RPGs and board games, so I guess I'll see how much effort they demand from me. If I have to go "all in" all the time, then yeah, there's no need to try to balance the game on the fly, really!

I always get thrown out of the loop when I think about the fact that one sides knows how to win while keeping the others from winning, while the other side doesn't know anything at all. I imagine the Keeper pulling some really evil (and boring) tricks like stacking hordes of minions at [That Place] so nobody can go there anymore without being devoured... but then, maybe the game doesn't allow that anyway. I'll see soon!

MoM is absolutely no RPG, that's for sure. It borrows heavily FROM RPGs and that's what might make it much more awesome, but "answer some questions, read the stuff we printed on cards"? No, that's no real roleplaying. I just like the distinction between
- "Keeper = Power Player out to win ASAP" and
- "Keeper = Player who tries to win while keeping the others challenged" :)

I'd better stop posting now and wait for sunday night, after gathering some first hand experience!

 

Oh, but the game will keep you honest being a Keeper as well, no worries. Keeper is by no means a Power Player. He has his good collection of nasty tricks (and those are not boring at all, believe me) which also change from story to story (awesome design idea) so you need to adapt to the story as well as to what your players are doing. But you are quite limited in what you can and cannnot do, or when to do it

 

Investigators are powerful (more powerful if they are together, tip, tip!) characters with their own bag of nasty tricks. If you anticipate their moves (fun!) or manage to mislead them (hard if they are a smart bunch, but even more fun!) then you will prevail.

 

And there is room for atmosphere creation. The introductory text of each story,  the flavor text in all cards, specially the combat cards or clues and even the Investigators Bios. Put it all in your DM (I can tell you are a good old school one) cocktail mixer and serve some dry horror atmosphere martini to your group. You will increase the fun for the whole group for sure.

 

Looking forward to your first comments after Sunday night then! Good luck and good gaming and don´t forget to drive then mad! ;-)

 

 

 



#14 dj2.0

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 08:49 PM

Im clearly on Elbis side of the table on this. I take the point that board and rpg games are different, but I disagree it has any bearing on the basic need for being a good games player. We all know what a bad loser looks like. But there are bad winners too. Whether you are playing Mom or CoC rpg, and whether you are Keeper or Investigator, the need is there. It just needs adapting. In MoM there is a need to mix competitive gameboarding with something more artful (this requires you to pitch differently to different experience levels of player). This is not easy to balance. This is what makes a good Keeper in my view.

MoM is a vs. board game. Dont misunderstand my comprehension of that fact. I get it. But its a board game with powerful thematic elements that deserve their place in a Keepers arsenal - things which need careful handling to build up, not a bull in a china store. Threat is psychological. It sits there bursting with dark potential. Spending threat at the optimum time is not about spamming as early as possible with the baddest thing in the box or hand. Its about hanging that **** over their heads at the right times so that they question every action.

 



#15 Elbi

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 11:01 AM

Sooo, I played Story #1 (1C, 2B, 3A). 3 investigators (Joe, Harvey and Pete) against me.

Result: "All players lose." and a LOT of fun.


Warning, potential spoilers for Story #1! While I don't tell a lot, some events and locations are named.
Also: Wall of text. Scroll to the last paragraph if you're only interested in the "Is the Keeper just a player or is s/he more than that?" discussion.



Spoiler starts here


What happened?
I explained the game to them, they know board games and at least 2 of them played Arkham with me more than once. I explained my possible actions in this story to them, elaborating on the fact that I gain 3 thread per round and have to spend X to do Y. So they all know what I can and can't do.

Turn 1, they run off to the Kitchen, spreading across 3 different spaces. I collect some cards (Evil Presence), use a joke someone just made to play a minor "you want to eat some nasty stuff" Mythos (because he WAS being greedy!), both to show them the possible effects, skill checks in general and what I usually do when there are no monsters around.
Next turn: They spread even more. Joe runs back to the Foyer, Harvey stays in the Kitchen, Pete checks out the Storage. Aaaand the Maniac comes out, onto Pete in the Storage (because that's their rear end). They quickly learn that spreading out means damage and/or death -> lesson learned, they stayed MUCH closer for the rest of the game.
The burning zombie approaches them, again using a joke to "urge" Joe one step closer so the zombie can attack. (you don't scream CHAAARGE! to a player who can move your units! ;) ) It dies in the Foyer, setting fire there.
Later on they get stuck next to the Lab, fighting a Maniac and a zombie in the dark, when Harvey decides to try and enter the garden. By that time their Main Objective was already clear (Escape!), as well as mine (Kill 2 investigators). ALL of them were down to 2-3 Hitpoints, so everyone was a potential victim of a single attack phase.
Harvey manages to get to the Garden, finding clue #3, triggering some zombies which, since they should've been running instead of fighting anyway, attack the investigators during my following turn. So, those 2 guys with 2 HP fight against a Maniac and 4 Zombies... when suddenly my whole army of minions decides to beat thin air. Without being able to improve their stats and even fighting in the dark in Joe's case, the investigators manage to dodge all my attacks or have the one zombie, which gives you a free movement if you dodge it's special attack, attack first. They pass the dodge roll, move away, one or two other zombies just stand there, groaning.

Well, anyway, the last two turns I didn't manage to land a single blow, had Pete panic and running to the front door (into the burning Foyer), forcing him to get out of there by running, which, since he had a broken leg, caused him to down to ONE hitpoint... and he made it. Well, no, he didn't, since at the end of the turn the whole house was dragged down into some other dimension, but still, I didn't manage to kill him.

What did I do?
1. I tried to keep them on the edge - when they were first attacked by a maniac they learned how HARD these things are to kill and how much damage they can do. Afterwards they changed their behavior to reflect that experience. I gradually added the different cards into play, not flooding them with Mythos, Trauma, Urges here and there, instead just a Mythos once, a minor Trauma later, followed by the possible combination. They were curious what COULD happen, discussing stuff BEFORE it happened, anticipating something big on each turn. Just the Cthulhu-Feeling I wanted!
2. The burning Foyer was primarily a way to a.) set fire on something big, so they'd learn to fear or NOT to fear fire and b.) offering them another puzzle, because I knew that it would create an obstacle they will be able to bypass later on, since they'd eventually find the Fire Extinguisher. They thought about it and discussed how they'd manage to get through there if they were forced to, not knowing that the necessary item was just a few rooms away. They were genuinely HAPPY when they found it, because it solved their problem, which, in turn, made me happy too.
3. Monsters primarily appeared to keep them on the right path. When Pete lagged behind, he was attacked by a Maniac. When Pete (poor Pete...) entered a room that wasn't necessary "just to check out what's inside", I sent a Maniac and a combination of Mythos + Trauma at him. Not necessarily because he entered the wrong room, but because the player seperated himself from the group without much thought, knowing they had to go the other way.
4. I really wanted to get the Slasher-Movie Feeling going, even breaking the leg of that guy who always ran away from the monsters. (Not because he ran away and I didn't , but because they always break their leg in the movies!)
5. I knew the story demanded them to be fast, so I tried to keep them on the right track. I didn't try to lure them the wrong way mainly because I don't like to "not have a clue what I'm expected to do" at any given time either. Sure, given the small amount of minions and their nature (Hullo Maniac and scripted Zombies!) keeping them on the right track by using monsters was really not a major aspect.
6. After they KNEW my objective (and I knew that it'd be hard to reach), I really jumped on them. Pete panicing into the burning Foyer was a potential way of killing the player, I thought.The broken leg forced the player to lose half his health only to not burn to death, REALLY breaking his sweat. When he shouted "HAH!" when he made his dodge roll against my Maniac later, I knew I made the right choice.
7. If they don't know the special attack of the monster, I don't too. While I know that I'm allowed to read the description at all time, I didn't. So it happened that the "free move" zombie attacked first. Well, lucky investigator, I say!
8. Showing them that the Keeper, too, can lose and even might lose if the investigators fail their objective made them rather cheerful, since that was a major point of criticism in Descent.


Spoiler ends here


All in all
the four of us had a fun experience, we all learned some new stuff, they quickly learned the rules on the fly, I didn't try to crush them from turn #1 on (instead really starting at the 2nd to last turn, after 2 hours of nibbling on their health and sanity), only failed my objective VERY closely (you failed me, Zombies!) while still keeping an "easy win" from their grasp. They were afraid, desperate or happy when I wanted them too, so... yeah. Basically like I'd want from a real RPG :)



#16 Acererak

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 11:21 PM

Elbi said:

Sooo, I played Story #1 (1C, 2B, 3A). 3 investigators (Joe, Harvey and Pete) against me.

Result: "All players lose." and a LOT of fun.


Warning, potential spoilers for Story #1! While I don't tell a lot, some events and locations are named.
Also: Wall of text. Scroll to the last paragraph if you're only interested in the "Is the Keeper just a player or is s/he more than that?" discussion.



Spoiler starts here


What happened?
I explained the game to them, they know board games and at least 2 of them played Arkham with me more than once. I explained my possible actions in this story to them, elaborating on the fact that I gain 3 thread per round and have to spend X to do Y. So they all know what I can and can't do.

Turn 1, they run off to the Kitchen, spreading across 3 different spaces. I collect some cards (Evil Presence), use a joke someone just made to play a minor "you want to eat some nasty stuff" Mythos (because he WAS being greedy!), both to show them the possible effects, skill checks in general and what I usually do when there are no monsters around.
Next turn: They spread even more. Joe runs back to the Foyer, Harvey stays in the Kitchen, Pete checks out the Storage. Aaaand the Maniac comes out, onto Pete in the Storage (because that's their rear end). They quickly learn that spreading out means damage and/or death -> lesson learned, they stayed MUCH closer for the rest of the game.
The burning zombie approaches them, again using a joke to "urge" Joe one step closer so the zombie can attack. (you don't scream CHAAARGE! to a player who can move your units! ;) ) It dies in the Foyer, setting fire there.
Later on they get stuck next to the Lab, fighting a Maniac and a zombie in the dark, when Harvey decides to try and enter the garden. By that time their Main Objective was already clear (Escape!), as well as mine (Kill 2 investigators). ALL of them were down to 2-3 Hitpoints, so everyone was a potential victim of a single attack phase.
Harvey manages to get to the Garden, finding clue #3, triggering some zombies which, since they should've been running instead of fighting anyway, attack the investigators during my following turn. So, those 2 guys with 2 HP fight against a Maniac and 4 Zombies... when suddenly my whole army of minions decides to beat thin air. Without being able to improve their stats and even fighting in the dark in Joe's case, the investigators manage to dodge all my attacks or have the one zombie, which gives you a free movement if you dodge it's special attack, attack first. They pass the dodge roll, move away, one or two other zombies just stand there, groaning.

Well, anyway, the last two turns I didn't manage to land a single blow, had Pete panic and running to the front door (into the burning Foyer), forcing him to get out of there by running, which, since he had a broken leg, caused him to down to ONE hitpoint... and he made it. Well, no, he didn't, since at the end of the turn the whole house was dragged down into some other dimension, but still, I didn't manage to kill him.

What did I do?
1. I tried to keep them on the edge - when they were first attacked by a maniac they learned how HARD these things are to kill and how much damage they can do. Afterwards they changed their behavior to reflect that experience. I gradually added the different cards into play, not flooding them with Mythos, Trauma, Urges here and there, instead just a Mythos once, a minor Trauma later, followed by the possible combination. They were curious what COULD happen, discussing stuff BEFORE it happened, anticipating something big on each turn. Just the Cthulhu-Feeling I wanted!
2. The burning Foyer was primarily a way to a.) set fire on something big, so they'd learn to fear or NOT to fear fire and b.) offering them another puzzle, because I knew that it would create an obstacle they will be able to bypass later on, since they'd eventually find the Fire Extinguisher. They thought about it and discussed how they'd manage to get through there if they were forced to, not knowing that the necessary item was just a few rooms away. They were genuinely HAPPY when they found it, because it solved their problem, which, in turn, made me happy too.
3. Monsters primarily appeared to keep them on the right path. When Pete lagged behind, he was attacked by a Maniac. When Pete (poor Pete...) entered a room that wasn't necessary "just to check out what's inside", I sent a Maniac and a combination of Mythos + Trauma at him. Not necessarily because he entered the wrong room, but because the player seperated himself from the group without much thought, knowing they had to go the other way.
4. I really wanted to get the Slasher-Movie Feeling going, even breaking the leg of that guy who always ran away from the monsters. (Not because he ran away and I didn't , but because they always break their leg in the movies!)
5. I knew the story demanded them to be fast, so I tried to keep them on the right track. I didn't try to lure them the wrong way mainly because I don't like to "not have a clue what I'm expected to do" at any given time either. Sure, given the small amount of minions and their nature (Hullo Maniac and scripted Zombies!) keeping them on the right track by using monsters was really not a major aspect.
6. After they KNEW my objective (and I knew that it'd be hard to reach), I really jumped on them. Pete panicing into the burning Foyer was a potential way of killing the player, I thought.The broken leg forced the player to lose half his health only to not burn to death, REALLY breaking his sweat. When he shouted "HAH!" when he made his dodge roll against my Maniac later, I knew I made the right choice.
7. If they don't know the special attack of the monster, I don't too. While I know that I'm allowed to read the description at all time, I didn't. So it happened that the "free move" zombie attacked first. Well, lucky investigator, I say!
8. Showing them that the Keeper, too, can lose and even might lose if the investigators fail their objective made them rather cheerful, since that was a major point of criticism in Descent.


Spoiler ends here


All in all
the four of us had a fun experience, we all learned some new stuff, they quickly learned the rules on the fly, I didn't try to crush them from turn #1 on (instead really starting at the 2nd to last turn, after 2 hours of nibbling on their health and sanity), only failed my objective VERY closely (you failed me, Zombies!) while still keeping an "easy win" from their grasp. They were afraid, desperate or happy when I wanted them too, so... yeah. Basically like I'd want from a real RPG :)

Nice AAR, thanks for sharing!

 

Well, I guess you do have a group of friends in which playing more RPG oriented actually works. I think being the first time you play it, probably easier to approach it this way, and once you have played it several times you might change a bit your playing style. Or maybe not. ;-)

 

And of course, if you as the Keeper have more fun relegating your game objectives to the back and putting storytelling on front, then your players will be happier indeed. But let us know if in this path, in future adventures, you do find any bump or not. Curious about it.

 



#17 Elbi

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 04:05 AM

Yeah, I guess some of the stuff just worked because they were totally new to this, but some of the... err... guidelines I enforce on myself should work later on too. As they get better (or at least more experienced), I guess I can kick them around much more, because they'll kick ME around too, of course. I just hope I can create a steady learning curve.

I'll keep watching their and my progress and posting should I fail miserably anywhere ;)



#18 Acererak

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 04:40 AM

Elbi said:

Yeah, I guess some of the stuff just worked because they were totally new to this, but some of the... err... guidelines I enforce on myself should work later on too. As they get better (or at least more experienced), I guess I can kick them around much more, because they'll kick ME around too, of course. I just hope I can create a steady learning curve.

I'll keep watching their and my progress and posting should I fail miserably anywhere ;)

 

Even if I am a bit more pesimistic than you about the game response to this approach, I definitely hope you succeed!

As said, I can tell you are a great DM. I salute you for that!






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