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What about the "re-play-ability" of the game ?


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#1 starros

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 08:45 PM

I just bought the game and I liked what I found in the box

But when you have done playing the 5 stories x 3 different objectives = 15 possibilities,  will it still be excited too explore an mansion thant you know by heart ?

Will there be new stories (may be post on this forum) or have we to wait for new expansions to renew the game and the thrill ?



#2 The_Big_Show

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 11:31 PM

I was thinking the same thing last night. Though I don't think each scenario can cover three plays with the same group because after you have done it twice the players know where locations B and C are so can head straight there. Replayability with the same players is going to be light IMO.



#3 SmokeGunner

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 11:39 PM

starros said:

 

I just bought the game and I liked what I found in the box

But when you have done playing the 5 stories x 3 different objectives = 15 possibilities,  will it still be excited too explore an mansion thant you know by heart ?

Will there be new stories (may be post on this forum) or have we to wait for new expansions to renew the game and the thrill ?

 

 

I think it won't be as fun once you've played all the permutations but I bet by then you will have already got a lot of enjoyment out of the game. It's hard to find 4 or 5 people who are all free to play a game on a particular day, so for most people a game session will only be once a week. That's almost 4 months of play. For the same price as MoM, you could have a few drinks and a takeaway, or fill your car with petrol (in the UK). Which is money better spent?



#4 FrostyWolf

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 12:33 AM

Story 1:

3 questions = 3 diffrent objectives, 4 diffrent ways the house can be seeded, 12 possible combos (not including the random seeding).

Story 2:

4 questions = 3 diffrent objectives, 8 diffrent ways the house can be seeded, 24 possible combos (not including the random seeding).

Story 3:

5 questions = 3 diffrent objectives, 16 diffrent ways the house can be seeded, 48 possible combos (not including the random seeding).

Story 4:

4 questions = 3 diffrent objectives, 8 diffrent ways the house can be seeded, 24 possible combos (not including the random seeding).

Story 5:

6 questions = 3 diffrent objectives, 32 diffrent ways the house can be seeded, 96 possible comobos(not including the random seeding).

 

This is if you play with the same group and only one person is the keeper each time.  If you are properly mixing up questions/stories each time you play, I seriously doubt you will ever reach the point where you "know the mansion by heart".  

 

You are correct in thinking each scenario can not cover three plays, they can all cover much more then that.  Every clue has 2 possible locations it can be determined by if you anwers questions 2-3,4,5,6 A or B.  Combined that with the 'chart' above (First question determines objective (A, B or C), questions after that determine clue locations.

I don't really see a group memorizing that any time soon.  Granted, if you keep picking the same story + questions (keep a list of what you have done so far) they will grow used to the flavor text and story and start to learn quickly where each thing is, but if you mix it up properly this should not happen unless your playing this back to back extremely often.

This also does not include easly made other stories, either offical or unoffical. You would not even need a expansion pack to make many more stories with what you have.  



#5 dvang

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 06:05 AM

I totally agree with FrostyWolf



#6 dvang

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 06:19 AM

Found an excellent example / explanation on BGG by Daniel Courtemanche:

 

The following is an excellent answer on set-up, from another thread. It is a hypothetical set-up, so nothing is too spoiled as far as I can tell:


There are 5 house layouts. This determines the location of each tile/room in the house.

Each of the 5 'scenarios' then has 3-4 questions for the Keeper.

The FIRST question determines which main 'plot' is happening in the house. There are 3 plots per house layout, which means there are really 15 stories in the box as it ships.

For example (making these up), the layouts might be of an outdoor area between two houses and the questions are:

1) "What is the goal of the mad scientist who owns this house?"
A - Study a Mi-Go
B - Experiment on the investigators in order to make a super being.
C - Burn down both houses.

So that is the main plotline and will determine where the 'final showdown' is and what the actual objective is.

Then there are 2-3 other intermediate questions like:
2) Where is the safe that is opened by the crystal key?
A: The Master Bedroom
B: The HVAC room

3) Aunt Mary's hobby was:
A: Knitting
B: Gardening

Each of THOSE questions will then form the path that the investigators will have to follow. In the example above they might get an initial hint along the lines of:
"You rememember that Aunt Mary liked to knit." which would mean you go to the first house with the 'SEWING ROOM'
-or-
"You have fond memories of Aunt Mary's prize Rutabegas." which would mean you need to go to the GARDEN SHED out behind the second house.

Each middle question is independant, but together will formulate the path the investigators need to follow. In this horribly contrived example, the Crystal Key will be in the location associated with Aunt Mary's hobby, and the safe it opens will be in either the HVAC ROOM or in the MASTER BEDROOM. Going to either of the second locations first won't save any time (indeed it will only waste it) because you need physical possession of the crystal key to open the safe. You'd then find the revelation of the evil plot in the safe and then have to go handle business.

If you are the investigators and have been in this house layout before, then you (the players) would know that the first clue is going to take you to either the GARDEN SHED or the SEWING ROOM, and won't know anything about the final objective based on that knowledge. You could send people ahead to the HVAC ROOM and the MASTER BEDROOM knowing the second room pair (again, as the players), but it will split the party and mean the Keeper can spend threat to harass you or get you stuck or otherwise keep you separated so when the final objective is revealed you aren't able to be helpful. Plus, there will inevitably be a 'LOCK' of some sort in the HVAC/BEDROOM location what requires the key, which you won't have until you retreive it from the GARDEN SHED/BEDROOM.

All of this 'Scooby Doo running around through doors' is just to give a forward path for the investigators to follow while the Keeper is doing two simultaneous things:
1) Wearing down the party before the final encounter
2) Preparing for the actual endgame scenario which isn't revealed until you have gotten the last clue.

If the Keeper is trying to study a Mi-Go then their objective may be 'Summon a Mi-Go in the Summoning Circle and then move it to the Laboratory, which then spends 3 time there in order to win.

If the Keeper is trying to burn down both houses, then they will be spreading fires with half-crazed axe wielding arsonists.

If the Keeper is trying to expriment on the investigators, maybe cultists are stealing samples and taking them to the Summoning Circle.

BUT...
The Keeper may set fires that set the investigators back even if the goal isn't to burn the two houses
The Keeper may summon a Mi-Go even if the goal isn't to study it
The Keeper may have cultists take samples even if that's not the goal so that the investigators chase them the wrong direction.

So the investigators are kept in the dark about their real goal, working together to find out the real victory condition as quickly as possible while trying to fend off being broken mentally and physically so they have enough strength before the final battle.



#7 The_Big_Show

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 08:11 AM

What you are missing, Frostywolf, is repetition of locations. Take story #1. You have three plots but location B has two possible options and so does location C. Once you've played using either of B with the same group they know exactly where to go to look straight away and will be right 50% of the time. You can't expect players to try and follow the story side of the game completely.



#8 dvang

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 08:58 AM

Big_Show, read the example I posted.

The fact is, after a few times they might be able to know that Clue #2 is at either location A or location B.  However, they don't know which one it is until they reveal clue #3. The clues are only unlocked in order, so they cannot skip a clue.  They cannot ignore revealing clue #3 and head straight to clue #2's location, for example.

Which means, yes, they might be able to "metagame" a little bit and head to both locations A & B before revealing clue #3. However, whoever went to the 'wrong' location would use up/waste a lot of movement and actions doing so. It's more efficient to follow the story and the clues. Besides, it is also more dangerous to split up, especially if the Keeper action for spawning Maniacs is available for that scenario.



#9 The Thing In The Attic

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 10:08 AM

the way i look at it is thus:

first 9 board games out of 10 are good for lots of replays even though you're essentially playing the same story. take Arkham horror, each time you play against say Yog sothoth your playing the same game but what happens in the game is totally random and upredicted. When you play manasions of madness for the 50th time sure you'll be playing a story combination you've already done but the random actions and chain of events and decisions made will still create an unpredictable outcome and enjoyable game experience.

second - reading the above post i totally get that this game will become very exciting when both sides know all the stories due to keeper subterfuge and red herrings - brilliant !

i expect there will be mini story expansions for this, or a book of stories with all th required cards.

bottm line - i  wouldn't worry  bout this game getting stale  FFG are belting products and expansions out and this product line will be no exception



#10 FrostyWolf

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 10:08 AM

The_Big_Show said:

 

What you are missing, Frostywolf, is repetition of locations. Take story #1. You have three plots but location B has two possible options and so does location C. Once you've played using either of B with the same group they know exactly where to go to look straight away and will be right 50% of the time. You can't expect players to try and follow the story side of the game completely.

 

 

 

You need to re-read what I posted carefully.  I fully understand how the game works.  3 objectives + 2 locations for one clue and 2 locations for the other clue is still 12 possible combos. 

With a total of 204 combos, if your group is remebering where a clue is straight away your not varring the storys/combos enough.  I suggest you get a notebook and keep track.

Your group would have to memorize:

34 CLUE LOCATIONS to know all the possible locations of all the clue on every map.  You group must have a AMAZING memory.  I also might add that durring the game its entirely likely your group won't even FIND all the clues if your not playing with a full 4 investigators.

So I confirm my former point, there is NO WAY your group is going to memorize everything the game has to offer unless the keeper is running the same things over and over again.  Sure, they might remeber a couple hear and there, but a good storyteller or DM (which is basically what a keeper is) knows how to adapt and take care of this.

 

By the time your group even starts to remeber all those combos:

1) You should be making your own stories

2) there will be user created ones

3) There will be offical posted ones

4) There will be a expansion pack

 

And even if you some how run this game so much with the same group that the do some how start memorizing all these locations, story 5 has 5.  Even if they memorized EVERYONE, that a LOT of ground to cover.



#11 The Thing In The Attic

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 10:12 AM

deleted post due to strange repeat of my post



#12 Laurence J Sinclair

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 01:32 AM

In addition, with the variety of investigators that can be played for each of the stories, there are a lot more combinations.  A gun-toting party will go through a mansion in a much different style than a bunch of egg-heads.



#13 VonSwarzenhausen

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 10:44 AM

Laurence J Sinclair said:

In addition, with the variety of investigators that can be played for each of the stories, there are a lot more combinations.  A gun-toting party will go through a mansion in a much different style than a bunch of egg-heads.

Ha! LJS beat me to the most obvious variant of the game: the investigators! And we can all be sure to see more of them with future expansions...

Incidently, if anyone plays with a group that completely focusses on memorizing maps and "beating the system" instead of playing the game, well, I can send you a invitation & map to my Saturday night gaming group! dD



#14 FrostyWolf

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 11:07 AM

VonSwarzenhausen said:

Laurence J Sinclair said:

 

In addition, with the variety of investigators that can be played for each of the stories, there are a lot more combinations.  A gun-toting party will go through a mansion in a much different style than a bunch of egg-heads.

 

 

Ha! LJS beat me to the most obvious variant of the game: the investigators! And we can all be sure to see more of them with future expansions...

Incidently, if anyone plays with a group that completely focusses on memorizing maps and "beating the system" instead of playing the game, well, I can send you a invitation & map to my Saturday night gaming group! dD

 

This.  I feel sorry for those of you that have groups that would be so admiant about breaking the game instead of playing it to have fun that they would go out of there way to memorize all the clue starting locations for each map and then every game split up and hit up those rooms.



#15 CraggleRock

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 01:05 PM

Even if they do memorise all the locations, it doesn't give them any benefit to run off to both possible locations for the second clue while a third gets the first one, because in almost all situations, the player will need the item with the first clue to even get to the second in the chain.  So if you send two "fore runners" off, whichever one turns out to have the right location is still sat twiddling their thumbs until the player who found the first clue turns up.

Probably the best that they can hope for, planning ahead wise, is realising which locations may have some random useful items to pick up that aren't on the usual "path of travel".  Meanwhile, the Keeper could decide to employ some very different tactics to mix up the pace of the scenario.






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