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Random Warlock Quest Cards


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#1 Caliban

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 08:30 AM

So I just picked up The Reaper expansion and I am very pleased with the expanded card selection. However, I'm not sure that I like the idea of players looking through the warlock quest cards and choosing the one they want. It seems like it would be better if it were random. This is an easy thing to accomplish but, I was wondering if anyone sees any potential isssues with this as far as game balance goes. It doesn't appear too serious but, thought I would bring it up anyway.



#2 Dam

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 08:54 AM

The old method of roll a die was random, don't see why random draw from 12 cards would cause issues. Barring of course those situations that could happen with the old method ("take a life" but everyone already in the Inner Region). Some would get easier Quests than others, but random + Talisman go together IMO.


"A dirty mind is its own reward."


#3 maphisto_2000

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 10:15 AM

I was thinking a similar thing when I picked up the Reaper expansion today. Surely if you could choose your own Warlock quest you'd just pick one of the incredibly simple (and immediate) ones like discard two gold or discard one spell or discard one fate. As opposed to the much harder travel to or discarding trophy quests.

I thought I might try with the option of rolling OR randomly drawing from the quest deck.

 



#4 icesickels

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 10:25 AM

I dont have my instructions for the reaper expansion, but we have had the expansion since it came out and have always just used the top draw on the pile.  Do the instruction read different than that?



#5 maphisto_2000

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 10:30 AM

"When playing with the Warlock Quests Cards, when a character lands on the Warlock's Cave space, that player chooses freely one of the available Warlock Quests Cards from among those available in the Warlock Quest card deck, instead of rolling a die to determine which quest he is assigned."



#6 JCHendee

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 10:48 AM

Haven't acquired that expansion, but the change seems kind of strange. I mean, if I were the warlock, I would certain have my own secret needs or wants, and not have them dictated by some annoying visitor wanting one of the most sought after "Magic Objects" in the land.



#7 Mattr0polis

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 02:15 PM

 Yeah, I also think drawing a random one seems much better.

As it is right now, the people doing well will probably stop there before the other players, taking the easier ones, and then people playing catch up will get stuck with harder ones when they are already behind. Idk.



#8 Gentlegamer

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 04:12 PM

We immediately disregarded the official rule. We place the Warlock Quest cards on the Warlock's Cave space and draw one randomly to receive a quest.



#9 Carrion Prince

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 07:31 PM

I like being able to choose which card you get. Otherwise you can get stuck with one that's almost impossible to complete for some characters like taking a life from another player and delivering craft monsters with the troll.



#10 JCHendee

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 03:27 AM

I would also suggest two more addtions to the drawing of a quest card.

  • Each time someone draws, the cards should first be shuffled. The Warlock's needs may not always be the same.
  • Each time someone completes a quest and returns it to the Warlock, the card for that quest is returned and again the quest deck gets reshuffled.

Though the randomness of Talisman gets ridiculed sometimes, other times it reflects the actuality that certain choices would never be within the characters control. In fact, some might even consider which of those quests would provide something of greater interest to the warlock (irregardless of easy or difficult) and maybe add one more of one or two types of quests into the deck. But not too many duplicates.

Additionally, a character should be able to reject a quest and return it to the pile (reshuffle) but does not get to draw another until they leave and then return of course.



#11 Caliban

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 05:46 AM

Thanks for the opinions. Random draw seems to make the most sense. I just played a game as the Sage for the first time( Better than the Prophetess?!) and simply chose to discard a spell card. This did not seem very challenging. I like the idea of removing some of the easier quests like Discard 2 Gold.  Just seems to be an anti-climatic way to gain a Talisman. I don't even like having Talismans in the Adventure Deck but, that's a bit extreme... ;)



#12 HallowKnight

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 06:37 AM

WOW, I totaly missed that one.  I saw the cards when I first got them, and said "oh look a draw deck"  Shuffled them and we draw at random.

However I did note, that before the reaper, you were able to use a fate and re-roll your quest.  With the deck, tenicaly you are no longer rolling the dice any more. 

So what we did, was you drew at random a quest card.  Then you CAN use 1 fate to re-draw a quest, and just like with dice, you are stuck with the second choice.  Think of the warlock cards as a 12 sided dice, rather than 6.

If future expansion, you could see the same type of thinkg happenin in other places as well, like the Tavern.. Extended list of stuff to happen using cards.



#13 JCHendee

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 04:03 AM

Nice option, HallowKnight!  You've managed to keep what the Warlock wants in the warlock's hands (a random) and give Fate (weakly implemented) another controlled and limited use in that game. I think I'll bring that one to our groups attention, if we ever add the Reaper expansion.

And that deliver 2 Gold is pathetic!  With Gold just lying around anywhere, he'd have found some on his own. Then again, what would he possibly do with it out there all alone?  Maybe if it were 5 Gold, that might be a challenge worthy of a Talisman, and still something one Charater might be lucky enough to actually have if drawing that quest.



#14 Dam

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 04:23 AM

JCHendee said:

And that deliver 2 Gold is pathetic!  With Gold just lying around anywhere, he'd have found some on his own. Then again, what would he possibly do with it out there all alone?  Maybe if it were 5 Gold, that might be a challenge worthy of a Talisman, and still something one Charater might be lucky enough to actually have if drawing that quest.

Actually, I've noticed that Upgrade pack (or base-Revised) + Reaper = very little gold (in general). Seems like most of the time you have 1G, if that. Sure, you can get jiggy, draw Alchemist or just have Thief that ends up with 14G (without stealing gold from anyone), but 4 games since adding Reaper, gold count is definately down. There have been long stretches where a char or even two have been flat broke in the money department. Still doesn't make the nerfed Raiders anything to worry about, but then again, I keep the BI Raiders in the box for when Raiders is drawn.


"A dirty mind is its own reward."


#15 JCHendee

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 05:39 AM

Dam said:


 

Actually, I've noticed that Upgrade pack (or base-Revised) + Reaper = very little gold (in general). Seems like most of the time you have 1G, if that. Sure, you can get jiggy, draw Alchemist or just have Thief that ends up with 14G (without stealing gold from anyone), but 4 games since adding Reaper, gold count is definately down. There have been long stretches where a char or even two have been flat broke in the money department. Still doesn't make the nerfed Raiders anything to worry about, but then again, I keep the BI Raiders in the box for when Raiders is drawn.

 

 

[I haven't checked the amount of gold in the standard 4th versus revised, so....] Is this perhaps because the Reaper pack is unbalanced where amount of gold is concerned? Did it include a proportional amount (versus the revised Adventure deck) of new Gold (in amount of Gold, not just Gold cards)?

I'm guessing it didn't, and if so then it is either


  • a glitch in design planning, or

  • an intentional modification of the base game to make it slightly harder (by limiting purchase of items and services, like healing).


That latter seems contradictory, considering claims for other 4th edition changes to make game duration shorter. Then again, the more we (my group) learn about the Reaper expansion, the less interested we've become. We'll pick it up eventually, but we're in no hurry. So far, the Quest deck addition (which wouldn't t alter game balance or duration much) seems the only thing of interest.

We actually like some fan developments (that are starting to pop up) much better, though we're careful about inclusions in maintaining the Adventure deck's balance.



#16 el67che

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 05:58 AM

maphisto_2000 said:

"When playing with the Warlock Quests Cards, when a character lands on the Warlock's Cave space, that player chooses freely one of the available Warlock Quests Cards from among those available in the Warlock Quest card deck, instead of rolling a die to determine which quest he is assigned."

 

Admittedly, my Reaper expansion hasn't arrived yet (tomorrow...knock wood), but if this is the only reference to the rule about Warlock's quests...it doesn't say anything about being able to pick the quest you want. It says choose freely one of the cards. I assume this means means, "Then you turn it over to see what quest you got..."



#17 Dam

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 08:06 AM

JCHendee said:

 

That latter seems contradictory, considering claims for other 4th edition changes to make game duration shorter. Then again, the more we (my group) learn about the Reaper expansion, the less interested we've become. We'll pick it up eventually, but we're in no hurry. So far, the Quest deck addition (which wouldn't t alter game balance or duration much) seems the only thing of interest.

 

 

Might be because it's new, but previously, nobody here really ever went for the Warlock for a Quest. Talismans were usually littered, that you didn't need to bother. In the 4 games, the deck been drawn from I think 3 or 4 times. I decided to go with a random draw, instead of choice.

 

@el67che: If you're just drawing the top card, is that "choose freely"? To me there is no choice if you're just drawing a card. I'm thinking FFG worded it thus to separate it from regulard drawing, like you do with Spell and Adventure decks.


"A dirty mind is its own reward."


#18 el67che

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 11:09 AM

Well, I can certainly see your point, and you are probably right, but it does say "Choose a card" not "Choose a Quest". When we pick characters, we spread the cards out face down and "Freely choose" a character card.

 

Anyway....I think I'll interpret this as "Choose a card" and not "Choose a quest". As the arguments in the thread have said, picking whatever quest you want  seems like a lamer way to do it.






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