# Problem with line of sight

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### #1 iceman358

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 11:06 AM

Hello everyone.

I have been playing Doom for some time now and I came across a line of sight problem. The situation is as following. I know that to shoot an invader you have to trace an uninterrupted line of sight to one of the spaces it occupies. And the million-dollar question is:

Can I shoot the dog below? I do not have an uninterrupted line of sight to the first space it occupies due to the barrier. And I do not have an uninterrupted line of sight to the second space it occupies because of the first space it occupies.

The "DM" states that I cannot shoot that "dog". I believe I can. Could anyone help me?

Also I have pasted parts from the rulebook that I believe make my case.

Pasted from the rulebook:

Line of sight is blocked by walls, closed doors, other figures, and blocking obstacles. Thus you cannot, for instance, shoot directly through one invader to hit another invader behind it.

Oversized figures occupy all of the spaces they fill. Line of sight can be traced to or from the center of any of those spaces.

### #2 Hipsu

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 07:18 PM

iceman358 said:

Pasted from the rulebook:

Line of sight is blocked by walls, closed doors, other figures, and blocking obstacles. Thus you cannot, for instance, shoot directly through one invader to hit another invader behind it.

Oversized figures occupy all of the spaces they fill. Line of sight can be traced to or from the center of any of those spaces.

Nah, I don't think either of those parts were meant to address this particular situation.

The first part simply points out that figures do block LOS to other figures. I don't get the feeling that it was also meant to comment about oversized monster LOS issues.

The second part, I believe, was written just to clarify that you don't trace LOS to the center of the figure itself but to one of it's occupied spaces instead.

Descent, which basically built upon Doom, clarifies in its rulebook (page 10, example picture. You can download it) that oversized figures do block LOS to themselves. I'd go with that. If some official word says otherwise then I'm fine with that. In that case you could target the figure.

However, the real important question, the real hairpuller is this: What if you replaced that pinky demon with two single space figures and then put 1 or more figures behind those two? Which ones could you see if any? The first figure is blocked by a wall. The second figure is blocked by the first figure (which you can't see). The third figure is blocked by the second figure and so on and so forth. But if the first figure wasn't there, then you could shoot the second figure. Doesn't make much sense to me.

I'd like to get some official word on that.

And no, I didn't give you any answers in my post, only more to think about.

### #3 iceman358

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 10:51 PM

My opinion is that you CAN NOT shoot the second space in the following example.

But you CAN shoot it if it is as in my first post. Because, how should I put it, you see the dog, it's not like it's hidden behiund another one.

And your example, you can't shoot any one of these.

I'd like to get some official word on that.

How can we get someone official to reply to this?

### #4 Jervon

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 01:36 PM

iceman358 said:

Oversized figures occupy all of the spaces they fill. Line of sight can be traced to or from the center of any of those spaces.

I like to read this rule more literally and would say that invaders dont block LOS to themselves - and plz dont mix the Descent rules.

If the oversized Invaders can trace LOS form any space that they occupy then in the example below the Invader may attack marine and if yes then marine can make his aatack as well.

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