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What is the future of Battlelore ??


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#1 Nivanti

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 10:15 PM

 I have been wanting to get this game for a little while now and when i eventualy played all my others and went for the push its sold out everywhere, is this because its not in print anymore or because Westros has taken over?

Expansions are still being released for this game so im really confused.

Is this game dead or not ??



#2 grubman

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 11:46 PM

Is a game ever really dead? I play games that have been out of print for 20 years. ;)

 

But, to give you the answer you really want…nobody knows right now. FF is very tight lipped when it comes to giving news on any of its games.

The story, in a nutshell, is that FF bought the rights to the game from DoW. They announced that to produce the game in the same way that DoW did would be too costly and they were looking for an alternate mode of production. Expansions continued to come out, while older expansions went out of print.

A while back FF announced that they had copies of foreign editions of the game and they were going to start converting those into English versions.

Fans of the game have been asking, “What’s the future of Battlelore?” for the last 5 years :), all the while continuing to play the game. Copies are harder to find now, but they are still out there. They come up on eBay all the time and you can still find them in many local Game Stores.

Either way, the game doesn’t have to actually be “in print” to continue to be fun and playable. If you buy a copy and it goes out of print the next day, you wouldn’t have wasted your money or anything. It’s not like Warhammer where everyone has to know the rules and buy and paint an army…it’s a board game. Once you have it you can play it forever. All the expansions are fairly independent, so you don’t need to have them all to use any of the others.
 



#3 lnealjr

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 08:50 AM

I would second all that has been said, and add this:

If you can find a copy within your budget, and have players to play it with, then go for it! It is a wonderful game and while I have confidence that any FFG produced version would be top notch, the original DoW produced game is full of really good components and is very well done you would not be sorry.

 

Having said that, with all the rules and impressions on line it is very simple to do your due diligence and make sure that this is something that you want to get into, with that settled, then I say you should be able to get a copy for sure.

 

As to the future of the base game, only FFG knows at this point, and as had been pointed out, they are not talking about it right now, so again, if you like what you see get the game and enjoy it. Its future, and what that really means ultimately is up to you!



#4 Nivanti

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 09:59 PM

 Thank you both for your comments, really appreciated.

I guess what I meant by the game being dead was just what you mentioned, forgotten and cast into the vortex of lost time by those at FFG lol

I own and have played Battlecry which i love and have played A and A , memoir ect but wanted a fantasy/dark age/med version of the game, I could just use my other board buy some 1/72nd plastics i guess :) not the same though is it.

is Westros the same system? have you played that also ?? how does it compare if so ??

If so it makes you think, should I just get westros that is currently being given attention from FFG, I understand its pretty much personal prefrence as to which box/world floats your boat but its nice to know that the company that owns the game still has some love for it.

Come on FFG give some love to battlelore :)

 



#5 toddrew

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 01:11 AM

Nivanti said:

I guess what I meant by the game being dead was just what you mentioned, forgotten and cast into the vortex of lost time by those at FFG lol

...

Come on FFG give some love to battlelore :)

 

You've likely seen other threads addressing what you intended by "Is it dead?" - but a condensed version of what you'll find in those is "not sure."

It is quite possible that FFG is giving BattleLore all the love it can muster and is fully intent on continuing to support the game by releasing future expansions that expand the races of the game, introduce a campaign style of play, continue to improve Call to Arms, etc., well into an unknown futre.  It is also quite possible that Code of Chivalry represents the last expansion of the game that FFG will release, as in one sense its appearance neatly ties up the three existing races and "completes" every element that DoW had produced for the game.

While I would much prefer the outcome to be closer to the former, if the latter (or a similar version of it) ends up being the reality for whatever reasons, in some shape or form the elements of additional races, campaigns, Call to Arms variations/race specific decks, additional Lore cards, and whatever else one can come up with, will see the light of day.  For me personally, I hope that those further developments are coming from the hand of a game company being guided by Richard Borg, rather than a (or several...) loose group of players of the game. 

The more players aware of this game, the better.  I miss the days of popping on to Vassal and instantly finding others waiting to play the game.  I had looked forward to DoW pushing its vision of online community that included a playable version of the game as the have done with Memoir '44 and were planning on doing with BattleLore.  I still harbor hope of stumbling across local players of the game for face to face plays.

Nivanti said:

is Westros the same system? have you played that also ?? how does it compare if so ??

If so it makes you think, should I just get westros that is currently being given attention from FFG, I understand its pretty much personal prefrence as to which box/world floats your boat but its nice to know that the company that owns the game still has some love for it.

 

Westeros is not a Command and Colors game as BattleLore is (other current C&C games are: Battle Cry - American Civil War; Memoir '44, World War II; C&C:Ancients - Ancient Warfare; and C&C:Napoleonics - Napoleon era battles).  I am familiar with the rules but have not played it yet.  To me the bigger changes are 1) less dependence upon hand management/greater "control" over specific units and 2) more dependence upon leader/character involvement in the action (a more integrated Heroes, if one will).  The combat system more explicitly favors "heavier" units over lighter ones, and introduces a few more complex  (please note I did not say better ;) ) implementations of ideas such as flanking and breaking engagement, but on the whole does not differ greatly from other C&C games in that regard - my opinion.

When FFG initially introduced Westeros, the indication was that Westeros would provide a more "straight" medieval experience, while BattleLore would focus primarily on fantasy.  I have been made happy to see that FFG has, so far, continued the path set out by DoW of providing both fantasy and historical elements to the game, as evidenced by the latest expansion for BL, Code of Chivalry, which provides four historical based adventures that use the Medieval Lore system set up for such conflicts (but also works very well for "limited fantasy" battles).  I've not understood the desire to limit the game to one aspect or the other - if a particular player wishes to eschew one of those, by all means the opportunity to deprive is just as available as the opportunity to indulge the way the game is currently produced.

Beginning to ramble a bit, but thanks for the opportunity to discuss these matters



#6 grubman

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 12:11 AM

Nivanti said:

If so it makes you think, should I just get westros that is currently being given attention from FFG, I understand its pretty much personal prefrence as to which box/world floats your boat but its nice to know that the company that owns the game still has some love for it.

Opinions may vary, but I would be leery about basing my choice (and spending my $$) on a game based on current company support.

 

The first question would be: Have you read the Song of Ice & Fire books? If not, chances are that you will not get anything close to the enjoyment out of BoW that you should. It’s not a generic game, it’s a game based on the battles, situations, and characters that take place in that series.

The second questions would be: What kind of game do you want? If you want high fantasy with magic, monsters, and non-human races, you are going to want Battlelore, and BoW is going to come up very dry for you. If you want a more realistic type of fantasy setting without the above (or very much of it anyway) and, again, you enjoyed the books, BoW would be the better choice.

Unfortunately many Battlelore players have taken BoW as a sort of insult. It slaps the “Battlelore” name on a game that doesn’t use the same game system (or a heavily modified version anyway) and really has nothing to do with Battlelore. Most Battlelore fans also see it as draining resources and time that FF should be putting into making Battlelore a better game. Finally, many also predict it is the nail in Battlelores coffin…although only time will tell.

In any case, I’d make the choice based on what you think is going to be more fun to play than anything else. Neither game is “cheap” so get the one you are most likely to play repeatedly and enjoy the most.
 



#7 Nivanti

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 04:09 AM

 It all came about really in being fed up painting tons of 28mm fantasy. 

I play alot of board games so to speak and sat down one night and thought, how could i game large scale battles without the above.

Thoughts have gone from Warmaster to BOW to Battlelore and back again.

Battlelore and all its expansions looked like the ideal choice, just a shame I have found it abit too late and a shame FFG did not continue with what looks like a cracking game with the possibility of many expansions giving the player many choices of armies/worlds/time periods set around a core set of rules.

I have not read the books A game of Thrones and doubt I ever will after buying the first one, opening it to see text as small as an ants arse.

HBO have just released a Game of thrones, no doubt Westros was done to coincide with this but it will fade out, just a question of what will replace it??!!

If I come across battlelore I will pick it up, until that point I'll focus my attention on Battleship Galaxies :)

 



#8 DragonWhimsy

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 04:31 AM

I would highly suggest going to the BoW forum here for opinions on that game as you'll find very different answers there most likely. It's a great game and I highly recommend it. You in no way need to have read the books to enjoy it and if it generates interest in reading the books then you will be rewarded by one of the best fantasy series out there. Even if you don't read the books you'll still find plenty of background info online about the world, something you will probably never get with BattleLore. But it IS a low fantasy setting so if what you're looking for is high fantasy BoW isn't the game for you.

You really can't go wrong with either choice though. They are both excellent games.

Despite what many of the fans on this particular forum will say they are both ice cream. They are just different flavors of ice cream.

BattleLore advantages:

-A LOT of expansions over the last four years

-Lot's of magic and big monsters. High fantasy.

-Command corridors (if you like that)

-Heroes you can level through multiple battles.

-A light hearted whimsical feel.

-Most of the sets you just open the box and start playing.

Battles of Westeros advantages:

-Low fantasy, gritty world. Mostly humans with a few fantastical elements, none of which are in the game yet.

-No command corridors (If you like that), with more control over your armies, though you still have to conserve "command resources" carefully.

-Varied and mostly balanced scenarios.

-Strong commanders whose abilities can make a strong difference

-Updated FAQ

-Next two expansions already announced.

-History and background already established in-depth.

-"Call to Arms" type cards included with the base set.

-The armies are different color plastic and they correspond to the actual House colors and the banners use the emblem of the House, not generic.

-Coming from tabletop miniature games you may find BoW more "wargamey" with it's slightly more in-depth rules.


"Do you know the difference between an error and a mistake, Ensign? Anyone can make an error, but that error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it." -Grand Admiral Thrawn

 


#9 DragonWhimsy

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 04:40 AM

 It all came about really in being fed up painting tons of 28mm fantasy. 

Yeah me too. I was tired of the massive amount of time investment that comes with tabletop miniature games.

Battlelore and all its expansions looked like the ideal choice, just a shame I have found it abit too late and a shame FFG did not continue with what looks like a cracking game with the possibility of many expansions giving the player many choices of armies/worlds/time periods set around a core set of rules.

It should be noted BL has had as many expansions as BoW has. And they're rereleasing the base set and all the expansions through the repurposed French sets. There's no reason they'd release their own base set till they got rid of those.

I have not read the books A game of Thrones and doubt I ever will after buying the first one, opening it to see text as small as an ants arse.

It's quite worth it.

HBO have just released a Game of thrones, no doubt Westros was done to coincide with this but it will fade out, just a question of what will replace it??!!

Don't be so sure of that. The Game of Thrones living card game is one of FFG's best selling and most supported games. And the Game of Thrones board games is one of their best selling board games I believe.

FFG has a lot of passion for the setting which clearly shows in every product they release for it. As long as the game sells at an acceptable rate they will support it and the setting has proven to attract gamers in the past. There is also a RPG by Green Ronin I believe.

The setting sells games.

And that's without the HBO series being a hit. Who knows what happens if it is.


"Do you know the difference between an error and a mistake, Ensign? Anyone can make an error, but that error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it." -Grand Admiral Thrawn

 


#10 grubman

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 11:55 AM

Nivanti said:

It all came about really in being fed up painting tons of 28mm fantasy.

 

I switched to Battlelore from miniature wargames (a LOT of miniature wargames) for a lot of small reasons.  I never minded painting 28mm miniatures, I just hated storing them and having to treat them like eggshells when I handled with them.

 

I will say this, switching was one of the single best gaming moves I made.  BL is much easier to find people to play with (because just about anyone can play), it's easier to set up and store, and I can still paing miniatures and build terrain (just check out some of my other posts).  IMHO you can do all the fun stuff you can with a "regular" miniature wargame, wtithout all the stuff that is bothersoms.



#11 Andariel

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 10:57 PM

Hi good games never die. I play Westeros also. Battlelore is entirely different to Westeros. The Core Set of Westeros beginns more complex. It is easier to win new Players with Battlelore. With the Expansions Battlelore grows in complexity.



#12 Nivanti

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Posted 27 February 2011 - 01:48 AM

 Again thank you all for comments, I have moved onto the BOW boards now to pick there brains.

I like the C and C system so will look out for Battlelore and have a friend coming over monday with BOW to try out.

Thanks again!

 

 






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