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Brig and event cards


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#1 Rasiel

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 07:39 PM

Hi, a little question.

When a player is instructed to send a character to sickbay. Can he choose character in the brig ? (so the event does nothing)

 

rules only say:

Q: Do forced-movement effects such as Louanne “Kat” Katraine’s “Stim Junkie” ability or the effects of Crisis Cards that force a player to move to “Sickbay” affect characters in the “Brig” or “Detention” locations?
A: No.

 

it doesnt say if you can choose someone in the brig to satisfy the event.



#2 ronsen_04

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 05:06 PM

I would say no. (I think I read that somewhere, but I can't find it right now.)

The whole point of the crisis cards is to do something bad. Just like the FAQ/Errata state that you cannot choose to discard X skill cards as an option on a crisis card if you have less than the required amount in your hand, sending a character to the Brig who is already there kind of defies the purpose, no?



#3 jullevi

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 09:41 PM

ronsen_04 said:

The whole point of the crisis cards is to do something bad. Just like the FAQ/Errata state that you cannot choose to discard X skill cards as an option on a crisis card if you have less than the required amount in your hand, sending a character to the Brig who is already there kind of defies the purpose, no?

There is no such FAQ. In fact, page 30 of BSG rulebook tells us the following:

"Choice Crises: When a player makes a choice on a Crisis Card, he can always choose the top or bottom section of the card, regardless of whether he will be able to fulfill the game text listed (unless the card specifically restricts this)."

 

To answer the original question, any choices after "top or bottom" must be legal choices. Since a character in "Brig" cannot be moved to "Sickbay", you must choose another character instead. It is not perfectly written in neither the rules or FAQ but any other option would be against spirit of the game, ie. deliberately playing wrong when there is an option to play 100% correctly.

 



#4 Keithustus

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Posted 16 February 2011 - 02:20 AM

I think I saw an answer from Tim that no, you cannot move someone to sick bay (or the New Caprica equivalent) from the Brig (or the New Caprica equivalent).



#5 ronsen_04

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Posted 16 February 2011 - 10:30 AM

jullevi said:

To answer the original question, any choices after "top or bottom" must be legal choices. Since a character in "Brig" cannot be moved to "Sickbay", you must choose another character instead. It is not perfectly written in neither the rules or FAQ but any other option would be against spirit of the game, ie. deliberately playing wrong when there is an option to play 100% correctly.

Wrong. In the latest FAQ the second question under "The Brig and Sickbay" specifically states that you cannot move a character from the Brig to Sickbay.



#6 Skowza

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Posted 16 February 2011 - 11:21 AM

ronsen_04 said:

The whole point of the crisis cards is to do something bad. Just like the FAQ/Errata state that you cannot choose to discard X skill cards as an option on a crisis card if you have less than the required amount in your hand, sending a character to the Brig who is already there kind of defies the purpose, no?

This is incorrect, you can always choose either choice on a Crisis even if a player does not have enough cards in hand to "fulfill" the discard requirement. 
And no, you cannot move someone from the brig to sickbay per FAQ page 2:

Q: If a character is in the “Brig,” and a card sends him to “Sickbay,” is he moved from the “Brig?”
A: No. This reflects a change from previous ruling



#7 jullevi

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Posted 16 February 2011 - 05:21 PM

I know what the FAQ says, and so does the original poster. The actual question (as posted by OP) is that can we try to choose a character in the "Brig" to be moved to "Sickbay" and have the attempt to automatically fail because characters in "Brig" cannot be moved to "Sickbay" (as per FAQ). In other words, the original players is trying to choose a character in the "Brig", knowing that he would be immune to effect. While the FAQ answers to other questions hint towards an obvious "no", it is not clearly addressed anywhere (if it is, please give me a quote).

I'd say no. It may be a loophole, but that does not mean that you have to walk through it. If you can choose to play correctly, you should do so.



#8 ronsen_04

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 08:06 PM

I would say no also. The rules/FAQ clearly state that a character cannot be moved from the Brig to Sickbay. Therefore I think it's safe to assume that it's illegal to even choose a player in the Brig to be moved to Sickbay. As I said before, the whole purpose of the crisis cards is to do bad. If you can regularly find loopholes to get around it, why bother with the crisis cards at all?



#9 Holy Outlaw

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 06:36 AM

 I agree that I think the answer is "no," but I also admit there's some ambiguity in the rules about it.  If we use a card like "Water Shortage" as a precedent, it is legal for a player to choose the discard option even if it can't be fully fulfilled.  So why is the "send a character to sickbay" option any different?  

By my understanding, the critical point is that a player must *must* fully resolve a crisis effect to the best of his ability, and purposely targeting a character who will can't be moved doesn't satisfy that criterion.  It's not that you can't choose the "send to sickbay" option, as has been suggested, it's that once you've selected that option, you can't a target who'll fail it if there's another target available who'll satisfy it.  

On the other hand, if the OP had asked, "If all players are in the Brig, could I still choose the 'send a character to sickbay' option and fail it?"  The answer would be "yes" to this, since you'd be doing your best to fulfill the choice.  Similarly, if the current player was in the Brig, it would be okay to a "current player is sent to sickbay" option and fail it (impossible, of course, since the current player doesn't draw crises in the Brig).  But if there's even one character that *can* be moved to sickbay, then a character *must* be moved to sickbay.  You must fulfill the negative effects of crisis cards to the best of your ability. 



#10 James McMurray

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 07:04 AM

Whatever the real answer is, it'd be nice to see a FAQ on this, since there's no clearly right way to go.



#11 Rasiel

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Posted 02 March 2011 - 09:38 PM

So, does anyone have an official answer ?

Argument that "crisis have to do something bad" is not relevant due to rule "you can always choose top or bottom anytime" So when Water Shortage, you can choose lose 1 food and discard cards even if you have no cards in hand. Does this make sense ? Not to me ... But rules say you can do it ...

So why cant you choose someone in the brig to move to sickbay? It does nothing, rules only prevent moving those characters, not choosing them as a victiom af the crisis. I dont know ... i dont like it, i also dont like "discard cards even i have nothing to discard" rule.... But there is no official rule about it ...

I asked this question only because i thought i miss something in the rules, but clearly i havent and only fix on this is to make an errata/faq on this. As it is said "what isnt forbidden is allowed" :)



#12 CraggleRock

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Posted 03 March 2011 - 03:07 AM

Rasiel said:

So, does anyone have an official answer ?

Argument that "crisis have to do something bad" is not relevant due to rule "you can always choose top or bottom anytime" So when Water Shortage, you can choose lose 1 food and discard cards even if you have no cards in hand. Does this make sense ? Not to me ... But rules say you can do it ...

So why cant you choose someone in the brig to move to sickbay? It does nothing, rules only prevent moving those characters, not choosing them as a victiom af the crisis. I dont know ... i dont like it, i also dont like "discard cards even i have nothing to discard" rule.... But there is no official rule about it ...

I asked this question only because i thought i miss something in the rules, but clearly i havent and only fix on this is to make an errata/faq on this. As it is said "what isnt forbidden is allowed" :)

The difference is the point at which you make the option.  With the Water Shortage card, you choose either the top or the bottom option, but you don't have to check whether those options are possible.  The option chosen then specifies which players have to discard cardsthere are no further options for the current player to make, so the fact that it isn't possible to fulfil the criteria is no longer relevant.

The same would be true in the case of a card where one option was "Send the President to sick bay": you would be perfectly valid in selecting this option while the President is in the brig and then "ignore" the instructions because once you have selected the option, you are being told which player it applies to.

Essentially, you can choose either the top or bottom option freely, regardless of whether you can satisfy the conditions, but once you have made that decision, any further decisions that need to be made in your chosen text must be valid options, assuming one is available.



#13 Holy Outlaw

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Posted 03 March 2011 - 03:26 PM

I agree with CraggleRock.  Frankly I don't even think an FAQ is needed on this one.  I really haven't heard a case made for any other reading.  



#14 James McMurray

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 03:06 AM

Holy Outlaw said:

I agree with CraggleRock.  Frankly I don't even think an FAQ is needed on this one.  I really haven't heard a case made for any other reading.  

 

"FAQ" = "Frequently Asked Question" not "Question that got asked and has two separate but equally likely answers of which none is the clear favorite given dissection of the rules." :)

If the question comes up a lot, it should be put in the FAQ, and preferably into the next expansion's rulebook.



#15 Holy Outlaw

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 01:05 PM

No, you're right.  I don't mean to say I don't want an FAQ, just that I think we can all safely play the way we always have in the meantime.

 






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