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Cosmic Conflict: A Question of the Siren


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#1 Graveyard Greg

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 07:22 AM

There seems to be a question in my gaming group on how the Siren works. I say the power to gain a foreign colony as the defense only works when the Siren's not the defense and uses her special ability as stated in the first paragraph.

However, the conflict arises when the second paragraph is read. I say it's still part of the Siren's special ability, and it clearly says her power works when the Siren is NOT the defense.

Come on, experts. Tell me I'm right.



#2 The Warp

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 06:35 PM

The first part of Siren enables that player to become the defense when they normally wouldn't be. 

The second part allows Siren to win a colony while defending, where normally you gain nothing for winning as defense.  The parts are meant to go together, with the added benefit of letting Siren win colonies while defending in his or her own system or against a player attacking Siren's foreign colonies.



#3 Graveyard Greg

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 10:08 PM

So in other words, my friend was right?

That's a bit confusing for the Siren then. Because the second paragraph then contradicts when the power can be used. But I guess it wouldn't be the first time that this has happened.



#4 The Warp

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 02:54 AM

Here's the exact wording on the alien:

You have the power to Lure. Any time a player in whose home system you have a colony is chosen as the defense, you may use this power to aim the hyperspace gate at one of your home planets on which you have a colony (your choice which) and become the defense instead. The encounter then continues normally.

Any time you win an encounter as the defense, you immediately gain a free foreign colony in the offense's home system on a planet of your choice.

I don't see how the paragraphs are in conflict at all.   The first paragraph lets Siren move the encounter to his or her system (and become the defense).  The second means that any time Siren wins as defense, he or she wins a colony in the attack's system. 

So, the attacker never changes, only the defensive player (and location).  I think the truly insidious part of the power is that Siren gets to choose where the attack is made, with the implication that Siren can choose a planet in his or her system where the offense already has a colony- meaning, if the offense wins, that player doesn't actually gain anything.  That is certainly worth some clarification.   But otherwise, the alien is pretty clear to me, and there's no contradiction that I can detect.



#5 Adam

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 05:03 AM

 I believe he means it contradicts the timing strip, which says it's only used at the destiny phase.  So apparently you cannot zap Siren if destiny forces you to attack her since the only "use" is in the first part.

I haven't played Conflict yet (hoping to today).  If it turns out to be too powerful, I'd suggest just treating the last paragraph of Siren as a "use" of her power when she is chosen as defense without previously using her power that encounter, zappable at resolution step.  Or you could just roll with it and warn everyone to be wary of inviting or defending Siren all game... 



#6 Graveyard Greg

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 11:37 AM

Actually I refer to the part which says when you can use this power. As in "NOT THE DEFENSE".

I see the second paragraph as an extension of the first.



#7 The Warp

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 01:12 PM

Well, I am certain I have no idea what it is Greg doesn't get about the power, but I will continue to speculate.

It's true that the power has two parts, only one of which has a "use", and that's changing the defensive player to being Siren.

The second part has no use, but is nevertheless still a valid part of the alien's ability, which is to gain a colony as a winning defensive player.

Now, on the bottom of the card, in the blue strip that indicates the capacity in which you can use the power, it reads "not defense", which corresponds to the "use" part of the alien.  You can only play a cosmic zap when Siren is NOT THE DEFENSE, and is luring an attacker to Siren's system. 

Siren is not the only power that has a use portion which is zappable, and a non-use portion, which is not zappable.  Warrior, for instance, adds tokens without a "use". 

Is Siren too powerful when it can't be zapped on a turn where Siren's color comes up in Destiny, and wins an encounter (thereby gaining a colony)?  I'd argue no, but I'd also support the idea that you can still zap Siren at that moment, even if by doing so, it's considered a house-rule.  Certainly something for the next FAQ to look at.

But in the end, I don't consider anything on the alien sheet to be a contradiction.

The original Eon version of Siren lured the offense when destiny was flipped, irrespective of what color came up (thus, even if it were Siren's system, it was still luring a player, and could win a colony).  The Mayfair version clarified this in the description (and only restricted Siren from luring on a Wild Destiny).



#8 Kobold Curry Chef

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 02:27 PM

Siren came up last night as part of Reincarnator's shtick.  The power appeared late in the game, when Reincarnator already had 3 foreign colonies, each in a different system.  Siren can be really powerful in that case, but no more so than Disease.



#9 Graveyard Greg

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 02:58 PM

The Warp said:

Well, I am certain I have no idea what it is Greg doesn't get about the power, but I will continue to speculate.

I'm certain you're missing the part where it says NOT THE DEFENSE. Which means the Siren's player does not use the power when Destiny is drawn for that player.



#10 PJSlavner

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 01:25 AM

Graveyard Greg said:

The Warp said:

 

Well, I am certain I have no idea what it is Greg doesn't get about the power, but I will continue to speculate.

 

I'm certain you're missing the part where it says NOT THE DEFENSE. Which means the Siren's player does not use the power when Destiny is drawn for that player.

The Warp addressed that issue.  The term "using a power" has a specific meaning in Cosmic Encounter.  As The Warp stated, some powers have non-use portions.  Some of these non-use portions might be able to be used at different times than what is printed in the blue strip.  The second paragraph in the Siren's description makes no mention of using the power to gain a colony after winning as defensive player.

I would agree that Siren could not be used to gain a colony if it was the original defensive player if the power description was all in one paragraph; however, putting the information about gaining a colony in a separate paragraph indicates that it is a separate topic from the use of the power.






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