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#1 oldthrashbarg

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 03:18 AM

Another newbie question I'm afraid.

How many encounters do you normally have in other worlds? I assume it's 2, since you'd be drawn through a gate in the 'Arkham Encounters' phase, and then have an encounter in the 'Other World Encounters' phase of the same turn. Next turn you'd move, and then have the second encounter... Yes?



#2 DaTroll

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 03:25 AM

Correct. Nothing more to say. :D



#3 Turambar

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 04:44 AM

oldthrashbarg said:

Another newbie question I'm afraid.

How many encounters do you normally have in other worlds? I assume it's 2, since you'd be drawn through a gate in the 'Arkham Encounters' phase, and then have an encounter in the 'Other World Encounters' phase of the same turn. Next turn you'd move, and then have the second encounter... Yes?

If you fall into a gate during an encounter in Arkham, you have an encounter in the first area of the Other world in the 'Other world encounters' phase' during the following turn, not the same one. So, the number of encounters is correct, but the sequence is split in three parts.



#4 oldthrashbarg

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 04:54 AM

                                 Thanks!



#5 Tibs

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 05:12 AM

Turambar said:

 

If you fall into a gate during an encounter in Arkham, you have an encounter in the first area of the Other world in the 'Other world encounters' phase' during the following turn, not the same one. So, the number of encounters is correct, but the sequence is split in three parts.

 

 

Not so sure of your intent on this one. If you voluntarily enter an already-open gate during the Arkham Encounters phase, you should wind up with only 2 Other World encounters before you return.

If, however, you get an Arkham encounter that says "A gate and monster appears!" then you will end up with 3 OW encounters.

 

This is why:

• Turn 1, Phase 3 (Arkham Encounters):
"A gate an monster appear!" you are drawn in to the OW and delayed. Being delayed when you enter the OW is ultimately what adds this extra encounter.

• Turn 1, Phase 4 (Other World Encounters):
You have your first encounter in your other world.

• Turn 2, Phase 2 (Movement):
Your character is delayed, so his entire movement is to stand upright. But he's still in the first OW space.

• Turn 2, Phase 4 (OW Encounters):
You have your second encounter in your other world.

• Turn 3, Phase 2 (Movement):
Your character is not delayed, so he moves to the second OW space.

• Turn 3, Phase 4 (OW Encounters):
You have your third OW encounter.

• Turn 4, Phase 2 (movement):
You are in the second space of the OW, so you return to Arkham.

 

If you had entered the OW voluntarily—i.e. there was already an open gate there and you ended your movement on it, then you would not be delayed when you entered the OW. Therefore, you would expect to have 2 encounters before returning.

If you were drawn through a gate during the Mythos phase, you would be delayed, but you would end up getting 2 OW encounters because the next movement phase would come and un-delay you before you got your first OW encounter.

Of course, the number of turns you are in an OW can be affected by if you get delayed or find a quick way back, or if you have the Find Gate spell.



#6 Mawdrigen

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 11:56 PM

 

Tibs said:

 

• Turn 1, Phase 4 (Other World Encounters):
You have your first encounter in your other world.

 

 [/quote]

Is this right? I could have sworn the reason you are delayed is so you dont move to the second section ensuring you have 2 encounters in the other world...

I don't think you have both an arkham and an other world in the first turn do you? 

• Turn 1, Phase 3 (Arkham Encounters):
"A gate an monster appear!" you are drawn in to the OW and delayed. Being delayed when you enter the OW is ultimately what adds this extra encounter.

 

• Turn 1, Phase 4 (Other World Encounters):
You have had an encounter so no encounter here.

• Turn 2, Phase 2 (Movement):
Your character is delayed, so his entire movement is to stand upright. But he's still in the first OW space.

• Turn 2, Phase 4 (OW Encounters):
You have your First encounter in your other world.

• Turn 3, Phase 2 (Movement):
Your character is not delayed, so he moves to the second OW space.

• Turn 3, Phase 4 (OW Encounters):
You have your Second OW encounter.

• Turn 4, Phase 2 (movement):
You are in the second space of the OW, so you return to Arkham.

 



#7 Dam

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 12:12 AM

No, Tibs is on the ball with this one, regarding "a gate and a monster appears", your AH encounter was that, you still have an OW encounter to come. If you think shouldn't have an AH and an OW encounter during the same turn, then what if your AH encounter was entering an open gate, you wouldn't then have an OW encounter ?


"A dirty mind is its own reward."


#8 Turambar

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 12:20 AM

Tibs said:

Not so sure of your intent on this one. If you voluntarily enter an already-open gate during the Arkham Encounters phase, you should wind up with only 2 Other World encounters before you return.

If, however, you get an Arkham encounter that says "A gate and monster appears!" then you will end up with 3 OW encounters.

My intent was to highlight the point you touched 

I supposed that the original question was linked to "a gate and a monster appear" encounter, considering the fact that this is the only way to enter a gate during an Arkham encounter. In the other case, you finish your movement on an already open gate and you have directly an encounter in the Other worlds.

Anyway, the main point is that you can't draw an Arkham encounter card and an Other worlds encounter card in the same turn, and I think this is what originally was asked!



#9 Turambar

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 12:27 AM

Tibs said:

If, however, you get an Arkham encounter that says "A gate and monster appears!" then you will end up with 3 OW encounters.

I don't think so. Quoting the rules: "Important: If an investigator is drawn through a gate that appears as a result of an encounter (such as “A gate
appears!” or “A gate and a monster appear!”), then he is delayed, just as if he had been drawn through a gate in the Mythos Phase"

There isn't written you stille have to face an encounter in the Other worlds. If you are drawn though a gate during the Arkham encounter phase, you go to the Other worlds and you can't perform any further action until the next turn, when you start delayed and thus you have to face your first encounter in the Other world.

And this is even according to the official FAQ:

"Q: Why is an investigator delayed when a gate opens up in their location, but not delayed if he enters the gate normally?
A: If the investigator was not delayed by a gate opening up in his location, he would be able to get through the Other World having only one Other World Encounter rather than two"

No way one could have three Other worlds encounter, unless he draws an Other world encounter instructing him to remain an extra turn in the Other world or something similar



#10 ColtsFan76

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 12:30 AM

Turambar said:

Tibs said:

 

Not so sure of your intent on this one. If you voluntarily enter an already-open gate during the Arkham Encounters phase, you should wind up with only 2 Other World encounters before you return.

If, however, you get an Arkham encounter that says "A gate and monster appears!" then you will end up with 3 OW encounters.

 

 

My intent was to highlight the point you touched 

I supposed that the original question was linked to "a gate and a monster appear" encounter, considering the fact that this is the only way to enter a gate during an Arkham encounter. In the other case, you finish your movement on an already open gate and you have directly an encounter in the Other worlds.

Anyway, the main point is that you can't draw an Arkham encounter card and an Other worlds encounter card in the same turn, and I think this is what originally was asked!

On your first point: Incorrect.  On your second point: incorrect.

There are other ways to enter the OW during Arkham encounters other than through a "A Gate and a Monster appears!."  There are a couple of "enter the Dreamlands, have an encounter, and return here cards."  I think there are a few others liket hat as well.

If you are in Arkham during Phase 3 and not on a Gate, you most definitely have an Arkham Encounter.  If you are in the OW on Phase 4, you most definitely have an OW ecnounter.  Since there is both a Phase 3 and Phase 4 in every turn, it is possible to have encounters in both places on the same turn.  Now granted, if you enter a Gate willingly, then your Arkham encounter is replaced by traveling through the gate so this is the only scenario where you would be in the both places on the same turn during these phases and only have one encounter.



#11 ColtsFan76

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 12:36 AM

Turambar said:

 

Tibs said:

 

If, however, you get an Arkham encounter that says "A gate and monster appears!" then you will end up with 3 OW encounters.

 

 

I don't think so. Quoting the rules: "Important: If an investigator is drawn through a gate that appears as a result of an encounter (such as “A gate
appears!” or “A gate and a monster appear!”), then he is delayed, just as if he had been drawn through a gate in the Mythos Phase"

There isn't written you stille have to face an encounter in the Other worlds. If you are drawn though a gate during the Arkham encounter phase, you go to the Other worlds and you can't perform any further action until the next turn, when you start delayed and thus you have to face your first encounter in the Other world.

And this is even according to the official FAQ:

"Q: Why is an investigator delayed when a gate opens up in their location, but not delayed if he enters the gate normally?
A: If the investigator was not delayed by a gate opening up in his location, he would be able to get through the Other World having only one Other World Encounter rather than two"

No way one could have three Other worlds encounter, unless he draws an Other world encounter instructing him to remain an extra turn in the Other world or something similar

 

 

If an investigator enters a gate normally, he will typically have 2 OW encounters: 1 normal one in the 1st space and 1 normal one in the 2nd space.

If an investigator enters a gate because one opens on him in the Mythos phase, he will typically have 2 OW encounters: 1 delayed encounter in the 1st space and 1 normal one in the 2nd space.

If an investigator enters a gate because "A Gate and Monster appears" then he will typically have 3 OW encounters: 1 delayed encounter in the 1st space, 1 normal encounter in the 1st space, and 1 normal encounter in the 2nd space.

Tibs is correct.  Based on your last couple of posts, it appears where you are confused is that you do indeed have encounters while delayed.  A delayd investigator is only affected during Phase 2 where he cannot move and doe snot have movement points to spend.  All he is supposed to do is stand up. and then move on to Phase 3 (or have a fight/evade monsters that share that space with him).



#12 Turambar

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 01:04 AM

ColtsFan76 said:

If an investigator enters a gate because "A Gate and Monster appears" then he will typically have 3 OW encounters: 1 delayed encounter in the 1st space, 1 normal encounter in the 1st space, and 1 normal encounter in the 2nd space.

Tibs is correct.  Based on your last couple of posts, it appears where you are confused is that you do indeed have encounters while delayed.  A delayd investigator is only affected during Phase 2 where he cannot move and doe snot have movement points to spend.  All he is supposed to do is stand up. and then move on to Phase 3 (or have a fight/evade monsters that share that space with him).

Probably I'm confused, but... where is this stated in the rulebook? I agree on the point that you have encounters while delayed, thus if I'm delayed while in the other worlds, then I'll have a third encounter there. But if you are delayed because of an encounter that already took place, why should I draw immediately another card and have another encounter? I mean, the sequence should be:

1. turn 1 - arkham encounter - a gate and a monster appear - go to the relative other world - end of turn

2. turn 2 - movement: no movement, because you're delayed - encounter: 1st other world encounter

3. turn 3 - movement: movement to the 2nd area of the other world - encounter: 2nd other world encounter

4. turn 4 - movement: returning to Arkham - encounter: close / seal the gate

or not?



#13 Turambar

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 01:09 AM

And this FAQ

Q: Why is an investigator delayed when a gate opens up in their location, but not delayed if he enters the gate normally?
A: If the investigator was not delayed by a gate opening up in his location, he would be able to get through the Other World having only one Other World Encounter rather than two.

seems to clarify my way of applying rules. if you were right, the delay-factor shouldn't be necessary to have two other worlds encounter, because if you enter a gate as a result of an Arkham encounter and then you can have immidiately an encounter there, then on the following round you should move to the second area and have the second encounter. so in the FAQ I posted, the clarification should be about the necessity of spending two complete turns in the other worlds, not just having two encounters.



#14 ColtsFan76

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 01:15 AM

Turambar said:

Probably I'm confused, but... where is this stated in the rulebook? I agree on the point that you have encounters while delayed, thus if I'm delayed while in the other worlds, then I'll have a third encounter there. But if you are delayed because of an encounter that already took place, why should I draw immediately another card and have another encounter? I mean, the sequence should be:

1. turn 1 - arkham encounter - a gate and a monster appear - go to the relative other world - end of turn

2. turn 2 - movement: no movement, because you're delayed - encounter: 1st other world encounter

3. turn 3 - movement: movement to the 2nd area of the other world - encounter: 2nd other world encounter

4. turn 4 - movement: returning to Arkham - encounter: close / seal the gate

or not?

Turn 1 is where you are confused.   You do not end your turn after movign to the OW, you have an encounter.

The FAQ is meant for the Mythos phase.  If you weren't delayed, then you would move through quickly and only have 1 encounter.  But when a gate appears on you as a result of an arkham encounter, then you inadvertantly have 3 OW encounters.  The reaons for this is just to play consistently in situations where a gate surprises you.

Maybe this will clarify it in detail: http://www.boardgame...1981158#1981158



#15 Turambar

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 01:26 AM

Sorry, Colt... I've read your article, but, even if I trust you because of the huge knowledge of the system you've shown plenty of times, I do not take your point. The rules state:

Important: If an investigator is drawn through a gate that appears as a result of an encounter (such as “A gate appears!” or “A gate and a monster appear!”), then he is delayed, just as if he had been drawn through a gate in the Mythos Phase.

This means to me that no other encounters will happen during the round you are drawn into the gate, otherwise the sentence i've underlined has no meaning (at least, to me! )

If there is an official FAQ or a point in the rules according to your interpretation, well, fine! I'm glad to discover my errors and improve the way I play, but otherwise... I still believe my interpretation to be the correct one.



#16 Tibs

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 02:38 AM

Where you're tripping up is that:

Phase 3: Arkham Encounters
and
Phase 4: Other World Encounters

are two different ways of having encounters, and are independent of each other.

If an investigator is in Arkham during Phase 3, he has an Arkham encounter (unless he is entering an open gate, or if he has an explored marker).

If an investigator is in the Other World during Phase 4, he has an OW encounter.

Therefore, it is very likely that you can have both in one turn: On phase 3 you have an Arkham encounter that surprise-opens a gate on you, sending you to the OW. On Phase 4, you are in the OW so you get an OW encounter.

Being delayed does not prevent you from having an encounter. All being delayed does is prevent you from going anywhere the next round. There are tons of Arkham and Other World encounters that delay you. You will remain in that space, and next turn you will have another encounter there.

It's just a result of the rule that being drawn through a gate delays you that produces the odd 3-encounter scenario when you are drawn through by an Arkham Encounter. There is no rule stated or implied in the rulebook or in any FAQ that delayed investigators don't get encounters.



#17 ColtsFan76

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 03:05 AM

Turambar -

There is no need to point you to an FAQ, it is a basic rule of the game.  Phase 3 you have an encounter in Arkham.  Phase 4 you have an encounter in the OW.  There is nothing in the rules that state you don't have one in the OW if you already had one in Arkham.

The FAQ you reference is for Mythos gates.  The question is not very clear so the answer is a bit ambiguous.  This does not refer to gates opened during encounters.

Perhaps instead of us proving the obvious, can you direct us to something that backs up your claim you can only have one encounter per turn?

 

EDIT: Though these do not have official answers, they illustrate others having the same question and the community backing me up:



#18 johnwatersfan

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 05:26 AM

Might I suggest to Turambar to re-read parts of the rules.  I think it might help.

Particularly the "Arkham Encounters" phase and "Other World Encounters" phase.

The first thing to notice is that there are two parts of the Arkham Encounters phase.  The first is if there is not a gate already at your location.  In that case, the investigator has an encounter.  If there is already a gate at the location, the Arkham Encounters phase is to move to the first location of the other world.

Now, the Other World Encounters phase says "investigators in Other World spaces have encounters there."  You are in the Other World space if you entered a gate because it was already open or if it opened on Arkham Encounters phase.

Plus stating that you don't have an Other World encounter because you already had an Arkham Encounter is rubbish because entering an open gate in the Arkham Encounters phase IS having an Arkham Encounter.  The encounter is just moving to the first space of the other world.

Yeah it sucks if it happens because of an encounter and you get drawn in and delayed.  Yes you're having three encounters, but hey, since when do bad things happen in Arkham that don't make it harder for investigators?



#19 Turambar

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 12:21 PM

I take all your points, but still I'm not convinced by that. Although there is nothing in the rules against your thesis, and probably your interpretation in more correct than mine, I still have to think about it. But anyway thx for having tried to enlight me



#20 thorgrim

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 12:35 PM

From the rulebook, page 5:

A turn in Arkham Horror is divided into five phases. During each phase, every player, starting with the first player and continuing clockwise, performs the actions that take place during that phase. Once all players have completed a phase, the next phase begins. At the end of the last phase in each turn, the first player marker is passed to the player on the left and a new turn begins.

The phases of each turn are:
Phase I: Upkeep
Phase II: Movement
Phase III: Arkham Encounters
Phase IV: OtherWorld Encounters
Phase V: Mythos

 

 

 

During each phase, every player, starting with the first player and continuing clockwise, performs the actions that take place during that phase.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Other World Encounters is not alternate to Arkham Encounters. It happens as well as Arkham Encounters, for every investigator who is in an Other World, and there is nothing in the rules to state otherwise.






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