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Feeling a bit tricked by future expansions..?


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#1 ishinken

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 01:38 AM

One thing occured to me while going through the components to this board game, that it's OBVIOUSLY set for future expansions.

We all know this game has alot in it's past with many expansions, hero add-ons and so on. But this is pretty much a "vanilla" version of the game with some of the older stuff merged into it with a little twist of fresh content to make it a valid "reprint".

The thing with really old "classic" labeled stuff is that we all think of it as "a whole" nowadays. That we do think of - lets say - starcraft, as ONE game with it's expansion Brood War.

Why did I mention StarCraft? Because I think it was very cheap with the boardgame being released without the additional units that Brood War gave and that shortly after the expansion to the very much EXPENSIVE board game came out... with many tactical rules that - to me - felt a bit obvious that they should have existed in the original game.

I don't really bother about paying extra for expansions if they are made to richen the gaming experience and keep it fresh with new variating content and new neat ideas to twist the gameplay. But when expansions are made "just because" nowadays it's starting to tick me off. I bet the content the expansions contain nowadays is mostly planned beforehand but added at a later basis to simply get more money.

I know this is how the world works nowadays but I just cannot grasp the concept of buying things "unwhole" and that it is so common nowadays. It's also completely ok to sell unfinished games and everyone agrees it's completely fine to get "the rest" of the content later throughout patching instead of the game being released later when it's actually FINISHED.

The reason I see that this game is up for obvious expansions is that after observing the escape values on both the heroes and the monsters you can see that the absolute TOP value a hero can get is 5. Meaning, a monster should not have to have a higher value than 6 to be IMPOSSIBLE to escape from. Yet we see the demon with an escape value of 8... This would make sence if there were any items in the game that increased the possibility to escape by adding a higher value to a heroes escape value. yet this does not exist in this game so far!

Also, where are all the items...? In the older versions you found gear and many fun, neat toys while searching and so forth like extra armor or agility. Here we have nothing even remotely like it. I bet all my money that we will see item expansions along with hero expansions.

Oh... and the heroes... 6 of them? Really? There were like what, 15 in the original?

I'm not as mad as you might think I actually love the game, but with a price tag as SKY HIGH as this one I can't help feeling foolishly wreckless as I buy this game for this super high price tag knowing that if I want the WHOLE gaming experience I would have to wait and pay alot more later aswell.



#2 Wanderer999

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 07:21 AM

I PRAY that no one from FFG reads this :x

 

Reason? Very simple - they might be going in the direction u said. But after reading it, they decide NOT to 'release' the expansions so as to prove u wrong that they are not out for money, thereby saving their reputation and sacrificing that small amount of dough in return. The bigger impact would be:

Us players will suffer from a permanently 'incomplete game' as u put it

FFG if u are here, pls pls pls continue to release expansions. My cash is ready for u, juz dun call it off.



#3 ishinken

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 10:36 PM

I doubt they would decide to not release any already planned expansions. I bet they are close to printing stage anyway.

All I hope, even though I know I will change nothing on the matter, is that in the future we will see better, richer games being made.



#4 StormCaller

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 05:25 AM

 Ah, well. The price tag on this one is a everlasting discussion, I see..

I am wondering if FFG had to pay an additional cost or something to be able to get the producing rights on this game..

I guess we'll never know since I doubt FFG will actually comment officially on its price value..

 

Anyways, as mentioned earlier on the forum. It would indeed spice things up with new board tiles. Hopefully, treasure cards which actually give boosting traits. A sword which do not give, for example, +1 strength seem pointless. Alright, if it's rusty I get it, but heck, then it wont be worth much and I don't see the point dragging it out of the dungeon either 

New heroes would be great. Especially if they continue giving out extra character sheats for being used in ex. Descent and Runebound!

 

SC



#5 matthew1980

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 12:01 PM

Well i must say, since i dont have strange habits besides from smoking my money isnt goin to waste to buy beer, drugs, women and such so all the money i keep in my pockets after i bought the food i need, clothes and stuff i want to wear and the occasional cd to get me in the game mood i am more than happy to spend the left overs at FFG expansions of this game and many others. I simply want more pieces to play with and more stuff to fill up those rainy sunday afternoons!!

So any word already what the expansion is gonna look like!?



#6 ishinken

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 07:58 AM

No matthew :) But if you have played this game before with all it's different expansions and all we have lots of stuff to add. I really think the first things we will see is more loot and characters.To me it sounds more logical that this game recieves a form of "mini expansion" since the thought of adding a bigger game board feels a bit over the top since the only logical thing I could imagine is that the catacombs became a map of it's own (so there would be two maps, catacombs and normal). But with the new system they have for exploring the catacombs this feels very unlikely to me at least



#7 midloo

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 12:57 PM

This is a great game and this is Fantasy Flight.  I'm personally hoping for an expansion soon.  I'll admit to being a sucker for the punishment this game doles out and will happily take the punishment on the wallet that would come with an expansion.



#8 Dam

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 08:02 PM

midloo said:

This is a great game and this is Fantasy Flight.  I'm personally hoping for an expansion soon.

That description fits Middle-Earth Quest for me and it came out in August (?) '09, still no word on an expansion.


"A dirty mind is its own reward."


#9 Madboyo

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Posted 16 February 2011 - 03:11 AM

Expansions will be great.

 

Maybe the combat options can be productionised to streamline the game.

 

Fingers crossed for more sudden death.



#10 Steve-O

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 01:07 AM

ishinken said:

Oh... and the heroes... 6 of them? Really? There were like what, 15 in the original?

The original DungeonQuest had 4 heroes.  Four.  FFG's version has already included 50% more heroes than the original DQ box.

There was an expansion to the original that introduced another 12 heroes, but that was an expansion, not included in the base game.  There are ALREADY a good 30+ other heroes from the other Terrinoth games which only need hero sheets to be used in DQ.  If current trends continue, those heroes will eventually be statted out by fans and made available for FREE.

In conclusion, QQ more.



#11 Dam

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 03:45 AM

Steve-O said:

There are ALREADY a good 30+ other heroes from the other Terrinoth games which only need hero sheets to be used in DQ.  If current trends continue, those heroes will eventually be statted out by fans and made available for FREE.

 

For me, they won't be of the same quality as official heroes, hence randomising and shuffling, you can tell which is which. One of the key reasons I don't care for homebrews. Not to mention none of the currently available HBs over on BGG include power cards for any of the Terrinoth heroes.


"A dirty mind is its own reward."


#12 JCHendee

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 04:19 AM

I'm halfway between Steve and Dam on this one.  On Steve's side, there will / are indeed many other Terrinoth heroes being transfered to DQ even now. Whether they are released publicly on BGG or elsewhere is another matter, as I know of several groups abroad who've made such but haven't bothered to distribute them.

The downside to this is that many players are not playing the sub-game card combat approach.  With several official variants, and even more that lean better in efficiency and speed, without a shared character template from FFG, some of the needed variations for character cards aren't very well done... hacked from scanned characters cards.

This leads to part of what Dam is talking about.  It is difficult to have a random draw of characters if some are commercial and some are homemade, especially without suitably sized card sleeves "commonly" available.  (Jon New found/created an option for that.)  One can print out extra card backs then to slip behind commercial cards, and they all match; this is a very common trick on other games where home made additions are used.  But with the size of those character cards (too large for what was needed), even that approach would be costly.

It's all quite a quandary where new characters are concerned... though I have some notions brewing for the future... if my group will let me take it out of the closet again without lynching me.



#13 talismanisland

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 04:45 AM

JCHendee said:

The downside to this is that many players are not playing the sub-game card combat approach.  With several official variants, and even more that lean better in efficiency and speed, without a shared character template from FFG, some of the needed variations for character cards aren't very well done... hacked from scanned characters cards.

I'm working on it!

Ugly the Ogre gets everywhere...


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Sometimes I even update the Talisman Island Facebook Page!

#14 ishinken

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 11:32 PM

Well Steve-O, all I'm saying is that why should we try to "reinvent the wheel" with this game? As I explained from the top, DQ is such an old franchise today and all add-ons it has recieved are - to me - part of the whole game today. I could not see the game without the expansion add-ons.

That the DQ game we buy today feels VERY stipped down and lacking of variation is obvious to everyone I have played it with at least. Even the original had more variety in loot and what felt like, a fair challenge.

This feels like instead of working that little extra mile to give us a rich gaming experience they worked extra hard to give us at little as they possible could. Cus lets take a closer look on the heroes aswell, they are really not that variating are they now? I remember the original heroes even having consumable items from start (the bowman with 3 arrows). We also have a hero that has a familiar by her side and we get no fun game mechanic at all in DQ to use that familiar... while the character that is mirrowed into ANOTHER game has!



#15 Grigg

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 01:52 AM

im hoping for

more heros, at least another 6

more tiles, new rooms

more cards, new type of cards

im hoping its a big expansion  in one big box.

 



#16 Dam

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 11:53 PM

I wouldn't mind seeing sort of global events, like in Talisman, which would affect all the players, so you might not even be safe when it's not your turn. Earthquake for example, forcing all characters to test X (Agility or Armor, whichever lower perhaps), taking damage for each point they fail by.


"A dirty mind is its own reward."


#17 StormCaller

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 04:44 AM

Dam said:

I wouldn't mind seeing sort of global events, like in Talisman, which would affect all the players, so you might not even be safe when it's not your turn. Earthquake for example, forcing all characters to test X (Agility or Armor, whichever lower perhaps), taking damage for each point they fail by.

 

Yes, that would certainly make the gameplay more exciting. I would even suggest more dramatic events as **teleport the heroes with eachother clockwise** for example. More randomness = more fun when it comes to DQ :)

 

SC



#18 Dam

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 03:02 AM

While neither Hero reached the Treasure Chamber today (as opposed to three characters in the previous two games getting out with3,500+ Gold each), but as usual, I always shuffle all the decks, even those that might never be needed. While shuffling the Dragon deck, what came to mind was that if they add more Dragon cards, I would like to see something like this spread (if they add another 8 cards):

2x Dragon Rage

2x Dragon Dreams: find nothing (something like Kalladra is making worrying noises in his sleep so the Hero just stops looting in hopes of not waking him).

1x Deep Slumber: draw 3 Treasure

3x Troubled Sleep: draw 1 Treasure (Kalladra shifts in his sleep, not as bad as Dragon Dreams, but still concern enough that the Hero only gets one treasure)

Would not only add to the chances of getting breathed on, but also add turns where you might not get anything.


"A dirty mind is its own reward."





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