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balance of command squads??


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#1 chordcommander

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 11:38 AM

hey,

i found the unit card of the upcomming commandsquads on www.brueckenkopf-online.com/?p=28418. i dont get the point why costs are 2  (compared to recon boys for example you lose two ugl but you get artillery strike and commandabilities...). is there anything i got wrong??

 

 

 



#2 reptilebro1

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 01:05 PM

I have seen this card also and have also thought that those points seem unbalanced. at 2 points you can bring back a whole squad, bring back a mech, and call in artillary. This does seem a bit unbalanced. It would appear so far that all models are either 2 points or 4 points.



#3 TylerT

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 01:21 PM

 i really hope those pictures are mistakes, at 2 or 4 points command squads feel like must haves. they could be 6 points and i would still consider taking them. 



#4 Ebonsword

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 02:09 PM

Wow, for two points, they sure do seem like a good deal.

At least you are limited to only one command squad per army.



#5 Dcal12

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 02:36 PM

So if both sides can only have one command squad, and they are that great (must haves), what difference does it matter if they are 2 points or 20 points?  They will just cancel each other out.



#6 reptilebro1

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 03:30 PM

Because that is not balance.... Now I do not know what the artillary strike is going to bring but if does turn out to be devastating then this unit should be around 3 or 4 points. especially if you are just going to keep then hidden behind some hard cover and artillary strikes on some one.

Now this squad, when it hits the field is going to have a huge target on it and is probably going to be one of the first things your opponant is going to go after.



#7 TylerT

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 04:28 PM

Dcal12 said:

So if both sides can only have one command squad, and they are that great (must haves), what difference does it matter if they are 2 points or 20 points?  They will just cancel each other out.

 

Well it does make the unit something of a "must buy" "must take" if it's way better then everything else. 

If it stays this way it would be neat to see other units that take up the "command unit" slot, maybe a hero tank or something.

 



#8 chordcommander

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 06:09 PM

@dcal

yes youre right, but in my opinion, a strategy game, where a big part of the game is to think about which units to choose for a battle should give you more options. it would be more interesting if the command squad was about 5 or mayby even 6 points and you could choose to bring in either the command squad or a walker and an additional bbq-squad. introducing must-haves canceles options and i dont understand the reason. there is a point-system for hiring your army, why dont they use it to balance the game??

 



#9 chordcommander

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 12:39 AM

the point is, i really like the system, but i dont understand the balance issues. its the same with the gunners and the recon boys, even with 2 dice more against infantery they have a big disadvantage in flexibility (without being able to hit tanks -). and why give the gunners 2 more ugl and no granades, thats stuff that really doesnt make sence to me. ok, in really special situations it could be better to have the recon boys instead of the gunners but why dont they have maybe 4 or 5 dice versus infantery?? its getting worse with the tank mkillers and bot hunters...

i understand, when you have a system with a lot of different units and expansions, that its difficult to keep balance. but this is just the beginnig and in my opinion at least the first units should be more or less balanced..

do you know if there is a compendium of houserules or something to adjust values??



#10 TylerT

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 04:04 AM

i see your concern, and share it. the current point costs system looks like it will favor the player with the largest pocket book and eventually make our base set units under powered and kind of useless. as this is a game with potential for organised play this is unfortunate 

 

my method to balance a game like this is to make army construction a draft, pool all potential units, and then take turns picking from them, this would requier mixing armies but i doubt it would really unbalance the game further.



#11 arkangl

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 06:39 AM

Not at all are they unbalanced think about this. I have to give up a shoot or move action to take a command squad action. That mean I have to either move or shoot and if need to repair, order, or heal. Also I cannot heal myself so once the command squad is gone unless they comeout with a hero who heals then they are gone from the game. 2 Points seem balance if you think about what they can and can't do. Also that squad has to get next to a squad if they are healing or repairing. So if the squad thats out is across the field then I have to send them across to heal them. Also I need to roll a hit to do any of these things and fighting spirit shouldn't be able to affect these rules so its always a hit.



#12 TylerT

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 06:46 AM

i guess i will hold not judge until i have had a few games with them. 



#13 chordcommander

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 08:34 AM

yes, but youll get all of this options in addition to a recon boys squad fighting capability for the same price... and artillery strike (whatever that means..)  



#14 loken14

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 09:46 AM

i believe that the points system is going to be the same as the armour  number and right now all that is out is infantry 2 and tank 4 so all units will be either 2 or 4 points so wait till new armour unit numbers come out then we could complain about point balance



#15 TheProfessor

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 12:30 PM

 Yeah - points are armor values.

I can imagine that when a "table top" version develops, there will be a more complicated points system as well, but for the board game, the points are the armor values.  (I think it says this in the book somewhere?)



#16 CombatRanger

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 02:20 PM

Also, you can have more than one command squad . . . they just have to be different types . . . we haven't seen any type 3 or 4 Infantry . . . so therefore we have not seen there command squads.   I could be wrong but I doubt that we will see any Type 1 infantry squads.  Now the question is will we see any armor command squads.   This also makes me think about what the type 1 and 2 armor will be . . . maybe bikes and jeeps and type 3 armor will be open top personnel carriers.   Which makes me also wonder about Aircraft types . . . I feel that type 1 A/C should be maybe jump troopers and Im not sure what to think about the other A/C.  Bomber would be too big for this game . . . but I see a lot of other options.   Also, when do you think the Kryg's,  . . . I mean the Vrill be released.



#17 Gobbo

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 04:07 PM

reptilebro1 said:

I have seen this card also and have also thought that those points seem unbalanced. at 2 points you can bring back a whole squad, bring back a mech, and call in artillary. This does seem a bit unbalanced. It would appear so far that all models are either 2 points or 4 points.

 

Snipers and Forward Observers are only 1 point each.



#18 loken14

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 04:16 PM

CombatRanger said:

Also, you can have more than one command squad . . . they just have to be different types . . . we haven't seen any type 3 or 4 Infantry . . . so therefore we have not seen there command squads.   I could be wrong but I doubt that we will see any Type 1 infantry squads.  Now the question is will we see any armor command squads.   This also makes me think about what the type 1 and 2 armor will be . . . maybe bikes and jeeps and type 3 armor will be open top personnel carriers.   Which makes me also wonder about Aircraft types . . . I feel that type 1 A/C should be maybe jump troopers and Im not sure what to think about the other A/C.  Bomber would be too big for this game . . . but I see a lot of other options.   Also, when do you think the Kryg's,  . . . I mean the Vrill be released.

wat r the krigs and vrill plus the instruction that talks about the next operations says something about one of them adding light armour



#19 Ebonsword

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 02:22 AM

TheProfessor said:

 Yeah - points are armor values.

 

First I've heard of thatwhere was that stated?

Also, the two limited edtion walkers that were released didn't follow that rule.  I realize that those aren't considered "official" units, but since they were created by the people who designed the game, you would think that they would have costed them usig the "armor value = points cost" rule if that was really how the system was designed to work.



#20 reptilebro1

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 08:13 AM

Gobbo said:

 

Snipers and Forward Observers are only 1 point each.

Are you sure. I was looking at the cards on the site and they look like they are 2 points. May just be my eyes though.






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