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The New Evil Plan...


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#1 Mekanitz

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 11:07 AM

Hey guyz, I am starting the plotting phase of my next DH campaign.  I was thinking of having the players under the employ of an Ad-Mech instead of an inquisitor... Or maybe an Ad-Mech Inquisitor... anyway, they will be sent in search of Ancient Tech and STCs.  Any suggestions?



#2 Lupinorc

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 11:13 AM

One of the early Gaunt's Ghosts book has a cool STC story in it. I can't remember which one it was though as I read it almost a decade ago (Feth me has it really been that long!?)

Any way there was the Inquisition and Iron Men and twists and turns, would make good inspiration. Maybe someone can jog my memory as to which one it was?



#3 spaceratcatcher

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 11:49 AM

I'm pretty sure it was the first one, actually. "First and Only," right? Although I did not like the way Abnett views an STC.



#4 Alasseo

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 12:51 PM

 You're right, it is in First and Only. Personally, I quite like the distinction he creates between Standard Template Construct and Standard Template Constructor, but I accept it isn't to everyone's taste.

 

I don't believe AdMech Inquisitors are possible- legally speaking the Adeptus Mechanicus aren't part of the Imperium, so a tech-priest couldn't become an Inquisitor- it'd be like having a US Senator becoming a secret agent for MI6.

 

Aside from that? Pretty fun idea, although if you can wait until the next sourcebook or two comes out you'll have some fun heretekal concepts and gear to play with as well. Also, if you can find it, there's a pretty good article on the Adeptus Mechanicus that was on the old Specialist Games site, although I believe that is currently down for renovation or something. I may have it on my hard drive, so PM me or something if you can't find it.


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#5 Ashen Victor

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 01:43 PM

Adeptus Mechanicus is part of the Imperium, an independent part, but part of it nevertheless.

Athough I think that an inquisitorial campaing about STCs should not be centered in the STC itself, but the ones who are loking for it...

Somebody sez Logicians? ^_^ 



#6 jadrax

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 01:45 PM

Alasseo said:

I don't believe AdMech Inquisitors are possible- legally speaking the Adeptus Mechanicus aren't part of the Imperium, so a tech-priest couldn't become an Inquisitor- it'd be like having a US Senator becoming a secret agent for MI6.
On the other hand, Who else would be even close to being able to effectivly investigate the AdMech but one of their own?



#7 Ashen Victor

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 01:57 PM

The Skitarii maybe?

They are adepts and have nice guns and poweraxes.



#8 Graspar

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 06:05 PM

jadrax said:

Alasseo said:

I don't believe AdMech Inquisitors are possible- legally speaking the Adeptus Mechanicus aren't part of the Imperium, so a tech-priest couldn't become an Inquisitor- it'd be like having a US Senator becoming a secret agent for MI6.

On the other hand, Who else would be even close to being able to effectivly investigate the AdMech but one of their own?

 

 

Why not  have their own organisation for such matters? It'd add a great twist to investigations on a forge world, cooperating with divisio [placeholder] and trying to cope with their strange ideas.



#9 diseased

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 09:34 PM

I don't know if you like the Logicians however I would suggest to use them as an anathema. Guess that could give the adventures some additional tension. As I started with the edge of darkness scenario I liked the idea of freethinking techrelated heretics and so they became the enemies in my campaign next to the rosenkartell a narco syndicate which is somehow related to the logicians.

Think about it. In the news section of ffg there is also a topic about a techheresy contest with some nice ideas for such a campaign!



#10 Deus Machina

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 11:12 PM

Alasseo said:

I don't believe AdMech Inquisitors are possible- legally speaking the Adeptus Mechanicus aren't part of the Imperium, so a tech-priest couldn't become an Inquisitor- it'd be like having a US Senator becoming a secret agent for MI6.

Agreed. What you could do is let your team investigate it/whatever because the Inquisitor has some debt to repay to the AdMech or has a close connection to somebody inside the AdMech whom he wants to stay in contact with for his own reasons. That connection alone could lead to some great adventures.

With Skitarii you'd have to be careful because they are the fighting forces of the AdMech; not completely comparable but something like the Imperial Guard is for the Imperium (that's why they are sometimes referred to as Tech Guard). You'd quickly end up in a less thinking more action-adventure.

AdMech adventures are great though because they are so alien compared to normal Imperials, just read Titanicus from Abnett to get a climpse of the differences between them. Maybe an AdMech character that follows the Old Path and doesn't believe in the whole Omnissiah=Emperor thing; there are actually a lot of them that believe this. You'd have to have a pretty good reason to be able to enter a Forge-world as a common Imperial though it would be real fun to do. Loads of ideas...



#11 Graspar

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 12:59 AM

Deus Machina said:

With Skitarii you'd have to be careful because they are the fighting forces of the AdMech; not completely comparable but something like the Imperial Guard is for the Imperium (that's why they are sometimes referred to as Tech Guard). You'd quickly end up in a less thinking more action-adventure

 

Collegiate Extremis, internal security matters, could possibly be more suitable.



#12 Santiago

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 05:51 AM

Sounds damn close too Tech Heresy...

Its dangerous and stupid, GREAT...

Perhaps you could draw some inspriration from the Stargate series for some inspiration...



#13 Konrad von Marburg

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 06:06 AM

I think you would have your best fit would be having your acolytes work with the Mechanicus in searching out the STC device. Of course, an element of danger and urgency can be  a race between the acolyte team and a band of Logicians seeking the same goal.



#14 whisperer in the vault

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 01:08 PM

"...a secret order known as the Lords Dragon, an ancient and powerful cabal of Archmagos tasked with policing the Mechanicus itself and keeping it free from corruption and techno-heresy" Inquisitors Handbook pg. 136 Also within the former tomes pages  may i also suggest the Rite of Setesh (pg. 140) or a self-aware Janus Simulacra (pg. 141) as adventure hooks



#15 Graspar

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 10:01 PM

I never did understand how the janus simulacra was close to tech heresy. I get that AI (Abominable Intelligences) is heretical and to get around this they use servitors. But a servitor with sentience would just be a normal person, augmentations turned to eleven, right?

 

I mean, augmenting people is allright, even to the point of brain implants that allows them tothink as normal or even better. What is different in the janus simulacra?



#16 N0-1_H3r3

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 11:15 PM

Graspar said:

I never did understand how the janus simulacra was close to tech heresy. I get that AI (Abominable Intelligences) is heretical and to get around this they use servitors. But a servitor with sentience would just be a normal person, augmentations turned to eleven, right?

 I mean, augmenting people is allright, even to the point of brain implants that allows them tothink as normal or even better. What is different in the janus simulacra?

Fundamentally, the difference between a Servitor and a human is that the servitor's brain has been formatted and repurposed (many advanced servitors take advantage of the organic computer that is the brain and central nervous system, once all the useless 'software' has been purged from it).

With the Janus Simulacra, it's 99% machine - there's some brain tissue left, but that's about it. Not that different in theory to some of the most ancient Arch-Magi (though they tend to retain more of their brains) - though even that idea is percieved as Technoheresy by some within the Mechanicus.

The problem isn't a literal one, but one of perception - it isn't a human being. It contains human flesh, but it isn't inherently human. Rather, it's a machine with a little bit of gene-engineered brain tissue wired in to the primary cogitator-cortex. Worse, it presents a thin façade of humanity with its programming. All these things considered seperately, it isn't Technoheresy. But considered together, they can be percieved as uncomfortably close to machines acting like humans, which is only really a step away from abominable intellects.


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#17 Graspar

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 01:10 AM

N0-1_H3r3 said:

 

Fundamentally, the difference between a Servitor and a human is that the servitor's brain has been formatted and repurposed (many advanced servitors take advantage of the organic computer that is the brain and central nervous system, once all the useless 'software' has been purged from it).

With the Janus Simulacra, it's 99% machine - there's some brain tissue left, but that's about it. Not that different in theory to some of the most ancient Arch-Magi (though they tend to retain more of their brains) - though even that idea is percieved as Technoheresy by some within the Mechanicus.[/quote]

 

Right, but the re formating would ba about the same as a mind cleansed character plus some wetware to represent the programming. 

N0-1_H3r3 said:

The problem isn't a literal one, but one of perception - it isn't a human being. It contains human flesh, but it isn't inherently human. Rather, it's a machine with a little bit of gene-engineered brain tissue wired in to the primary cogitator-cortex. Worse, it presents a thin façade of humanity with its programming. All these things considered seperately, it isn't Technoheresy. But considered together, they can be percieved as uncomfortably close to machines acting like humans, which is only really a step away from abominable intellects.

 

 

 

I'm well aware of that. My thinking was more that if you wanted a sentient Janus simulacra you could get around the tech heresy problem by simply not calling it a servitor. Rafter wall, none of the components involved are tech heresy in themselves and it'd be bloody stupid hereteks to announce their heresy when simply calling it a heavily augmented mind cleansed slave with exstensive wetware would render it nonexistent or at least a lighter shade of grey.

 

 

This quoting system is not very good at all.



#18 N0-1_H3r3

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 01:49 AM

Graspar said:


 

Right, but the re formating would ba about the same as a mind cleansed character plus some wetware to represent the programming.

No, it really isn't.
 
On the one hand, you have mindwiping, a process used to eliminate the memories of a human being while leaving the person intact and useful. It's like deleting all the programs and documents from a hard drive.
 
On the other, you have servitorisation, a process which completely wipes the organic computer known as a human brain, rendering it blank and empty ready for new programming to be applied. It's more akin to completely formatting your hard drive, right down to removing the operating system.
 
The former leaves a human being with no memories. The latter leaves a sack of flesh that can't walk, talk or think without the appropriate programming.


I'm well aware of that. My thinking was more that if you wanted a sentient Janus simulacra you could get around the tech heresy problem by simply not calling it a servitor. Rafter wall, none of the components involved are tech heresy in themselves and it'd be bloody stupid hereteks to announce their heresy when simply calling it a heavily augmented mind cleansed slave with exstensive wetware would render it nonexistent or at least a lighter shade of grey.

 

When you're dealing with zealots, naming conventions are largely irrelevant.

Beyond that, the Janus Simulacra couldn't be fobbed off as just a 'augmented slave' - it's a machine with bits of human tissue, rather than a human with bits of machine. Given how little human tissue (the Inquisitor's Handbook describes a "carefully harvested living cortex and spliced-in nerve ganglia", so it's not even a complete brain) is within a Janus, I doubt it could actually be sentient by merit of its human components, meaning that actual sentience could only be achieved by software in its cogitator.

From the perspective of the Mechanicus Orthodoxy, it's not an Abominable Intelligence yet... but it's almost too close for comfort.


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#19 Graspar

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 02:20 AM

D'oh, you're right and I'm wrong.

 

Still, anyone but a Tech Priest would have a really really hard time to see the difference.

 

The quotes suck!



#20 N0-1_H3r3

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 04:14 AM

Graspar said:

D'oh, you're right and I'm wrong.

 

Still, anyone but a Tech Priest would have a really really hard time to see the difference.

 

The quotes suck!

Yes, the quotes suck.

And, though only a Tech-Priest would really be able to tell the difference, they're the ones who determine what is and what isn't Technoheresy, so they're the only ones who matter in regards to it.

It's all a matter of degrees, but then, that's all it needs to be.


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