Jump to content



Photo

Next Battlelore game: Warhammer Battlelore?


  • Please log in to reply
8 replies to this topic

#1 superklaus

superklaus

    Member

  • Members
  • 190 posts

Posted 24 January 2011 - 03:59 AM

Maybe FFG should produce a Warhammer Battlelore game? What do you think?



#2 awayputurwpn

awayputurwpn

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,187 posts

Posted 24 January 2011 - 07:52 AM

You mean a Battlelore game set in the Warhammer universe, like they did with Westeros?



#3 superklaus

superklaus

    Member

  • Members
  • 190 posts

Posted 24 January 2011 - 12:07 PM

Yes. A battlelore game in the Warhammer universe. With Skaven, Chaos demons etc. Wouldnt this be cool?

But not with the new Westeros game mechanic which may be not bad as such, but personally I prefer the traditional way BL is played. (center, flanks etc.)



#4 grubman

grubman

    Member

  • Members
  • 56 posts

Posted 26 January 2011 - 12:12 PM

superklaus said:

 

Maybe FFG should produce a Warhammer Battlelore game? What do you think?

 

 

Shouldn't!

 Thankfully it won't, for many reasons. I could probably leave it at that but someone will undoubtedly ask what reasons, so here are a few...First off, FF doesn't have permission to make any such game. Secondly, GW will never ever give such permission. Not only would it split thier fan base, but it would create a cheaper alternative to their bread and butter product: miniatures. Anyone who thinks this could ever happen has never been a fan of GW and seen how they operate their business ventures. If that doesn't convince you, just take a look at Battlemasters...if that isn't still on shelves, why would a Battlelore version happen?

 

Battlelore is awesome the way it is because of all the things that make it different than Warhammer, why make another Warhammer clone?
 



#5 superklaus

superklaus

    Member

  • Members
  • 190 posts

Posted 28 January 2011 - 04:34 AM

grubman said:

superklaus said:

 

Maybe FFG should produce a Warhammer Battlelore game? What do you think?

 

 

Shouldn't!

 Thankfully it won't, for many reasons. I could probably leave it at that but someone will undoubtedly ask what reasons, so here are a few...First off, FF doesn't have permission to make any such game. Secondly, GW will never ever give such permission. Not only would it split thier fan base, but it would create a cheaper alternative to their bread and butter product: miniatures. Anyone who thinks this could ever happen has never been a fan of GW and seen how they operate their business ventures. If that doesn't convince you, just take a look at Battlemasters...if that isn't still on shelves, why would a Battlelore version happen?

Well you seem to know exactly which policy GW has. Congratulations to your negative position. I am not sure if it is correct or just your assumption  because you dont like the idea of a BL warhammer. In truth I think that noone who is not working with GW or FFG knows the true answer about the business policy and relationship of both companies.

My take is that there is always a possibility in business to make money and cross business. Combining 2 successful franchises is usually a good way to earn money. FFG did already several games with Warhammer plastic minis which means that GW is not really so strict as you think and IMO there is a chance to see BL Warhammer as long as FFG has a licence for this setting.

Regarding splitting the fanbase. This is only one point of view. The other is that such a game series would strength the GW fanbase with making the Warhammer setting more popular in the minds of BL fans all over the world. And I never thought that BL is comparable or competing product to WFB. Its totally different and different types of people are playing these 2 games.

 

 

 grubman said:

Battlelore is awesome the way it is because of all the things that make it different than Warhammer, why make another Warhammer clone?
 

 

Well one of the reasons is that the current BL setting is shallow and silly (dwarfs in kilt? to each his own, but do your really like this?) and without much background info, while the Warhammer setting is rich and exciting.



#6 caradoc

caradoc

    Member

  • Members
  • 144 posts

Posted 28 January 2011 - 11:27 AM

I'd rather see FFG developing it's own setting for Battlelore - or creating variations set in the licensed worlds it already has (Middle Earth for example).

 

I can't imagine that FFG will create a Warhammer version of Battlelore - when they first announced the agreement with GW they published a statement about it that indicated that while FFG could produce board games etc using GWs settings, they weren't allowed to produce any game where miniatures were the primary components (this is from memory - you could probably still find this announcement on this site or over at BGG).

 

As an ex-warhammer player I think it could be cool - I just don't see it happening.  And as I said, I'd rather see FFG develop their own setting for Battlelore, and/or variations set in other worlds.

 

Cheers,

Giles.



#7 grubman

grubman

    Member

  • Members
  • 56 posts

Posted 28 January 2011 - 12:23 PM

 superklaus said:


Well you seem to know exactly which policy GW has. Congratulations to your negative position. I am not sure if it is correct or just your assumption because you dont like the idea of a BL warhammer. In truth I think that noone who is not working with GW or FFG knows the true answer about the business policy and relationship of both companies.
 

 

 

Usually I avoid responding to snippy insulting posts, but perhaps my own post across wrong (in content and attitude), so I’ll clarify some of my opinions and experiences.

First and foremost, it’s not that I “don’t like the idea of a BL Warhammer” (although I wouldn’t buy into it having already played WFB for many years and abandoned it for BL), it’s just that it doesn’t make any sense. Warhammer is a highly popular miniature wargame that makes its profit on (arguably overpriced) miniature sales. A BL Warhammer would offer a cheaper alternative which goes against everything GWmakes money on.

Battlemasters, was basically the same thing as a (dumbed down) BL Warhammer. It was discontinued because it didn’t do what GW wanted it to do…get new gamers into the hobby, and ultimately turn to Warhammer. In fact, it did the opposite; it gave existing players of the game a bunch of cheap alternative (and official by tournament ruling) Warhammer miniatures. Battlemasters was probably discontinued for many other reasons but, the bottom line is: Why would GW go down a road that was already a failure for them?

The agreement between FF and GW is public knowledge (go a Google search). You can read a press release that specifically states, “The agreement does not include certain titles in which miniatures feature as the predominant component of the game”. I may be wrong, but I’m fairly certain their flagship Warhammer miniature games are some of those “certain titles”.

Other than that, GW has always held a very tight control over their property. They discontinue highly popular games because they aren’t selling enough miniatures (as frustrated fans of GW games will certainly tell you about), they post cease and desist on fan websites, and they sue anyone who treads to closely to their product identity (not that I can always blame them, but they have proven to be heavy handed in the past). This is all common knowledge well documented around the internet if you care to search around.

Granted, I do not work for GW or FF, so I don’t have insider knowlege, but I’ve been a fan of GW games since the 80s, and GW has always been fairly consistent in the way they have run their empire.

That said, never say never. Could it happen? I guess, I just don’t see it making sense in any way shape or form. But that’s my opinion, and opinions are like…well, you know.

superklaus said:


GW is not really so strict as you think and IMO there is a chance to see BL Warhammer as long as FFG has a licence for this setting.
 

 

Again, everything from the past 30 years still indicates that GW is VERY strict about their product, and I guarantee FF isn’t the one dictating what is done with the Warhammer property and they don’t hold any “license” beyond what GW allows after careful scrutiny of every product proposed.

superklaus said:

 

Regarding splitting the fanbase. This is only one point of view. The other is that such a game series would strength the GW fanbase with making the Warhammer setting more popular in the minds of BL fans all over the world. And I never thought that BL is comparable or competing product to WFB. Its totally different and different types of people are playing these 2 games.
 

 

Again, GW isn’t concerned with “making the Warhammer setting more popular” they are concerned with selling miniatures…bottom line. A BL Warhammer game does not promote the sale of miniatures for their flagship lines, and in fact gives a cheaper alternative.

As far as BL fans giving momentum to Warhammer? Wishfull thinking. Battlelore is my fantasy wargame of choice, but if BL had 1 /100th of the fan base Warhammer does we would have seen Days of Wonder selling it to FF and we would definitely have seen FF get the core boxed set back in print.

superklaus said:

 

Well one of the reasons is that the current BL setting is shallow and silly (dwarfs in kilt? to each his own, but do your really like this?) and without much background info, while the Warhammer setting is rich and exciting.
 

 

…and here is the primary reason I chose to respond :)

Shallow and silly? That’s and opinion, not a fact. The historical time frame around which the setting is based is anything but shallow or silly (pick up a few books from the library if you want to discover how interesting history is). The fantasy elements give the whole thing a twist, and make it fantastic and even more interesting. The setting is designed to spark the imagination and give the game some flavor…not to spoon feed the player with a ton of fluff or fiction. Besides, don’t forget, this is a game, not a franchise!

For what it’s worth, I played WFB religiously for almost a decade, and most of my opponents had no real grasp of the setting other than it was a fantasy world that gave you an excuse to fight a war (or play the game, if you prefer). There is even less need for additional fluff in a game like Battlelore. The only reason I knew the setting so well is because I had been playing WFRP in the late 80s and early 90s.

On top of all that saying BL is “Shallow and Silly” and the Old World is “rich and exciting” is like saying apples taste great and oranges taste terrible.

Finally (more personally)…Yes, I really do “like that”. I like that BL manages to provide an exciting, tactical, and highly replayable game with neat miniatures and doesn’t take itself to seriously (and I’m personally sick to death of “dark fantasy” worlds). The humorous elements are enough to make those who enjoy such stuff chuckle, without being so blatant and overbearing that more serious minded people find it too over the top. Even you, who apparently thinks BL’s setting is “shallow and silly” still enjoys the game enough to visit this forum and post (and I assume play), so it must not be a deal breaker.

Now all that said, a lot of this is my opinion (no more valid than yours or anyone else’s)…but I hope you can at least respect the fact that this opinion is based on a lot of information and extensive past experience with GW and their business procedures. Nothing is ever out of the question, but I think a BL/Warhammer is very unlikely IMHO, and I hope this post helps to explain why I feel this way…if you are still reading, it was pretty long ;)
 



#8 Toqtamish

Toqtamish

    Toqtamish

  • Members
  • 3,003 posts

Posted 07 February 2011 - 08:31 AM

Agreed that a Warhammer Battlelore is not likely as GW would not want the competition with one of their flagship lines. If they wanted a battlelore like game they would do it themselves.



#9 Elberon

Elberon

    Member

  • Members
  • 227 posts

Posted 07 February 2011 - 07:12 PM

 It's hardly as though FFG have that much development work to do seeing how Mr Borg had been playing and developing the Battlelore world for as least 6 years before (IF memory serves me right of comments on the DoW boards) before it was first released.  Add in DoW only using a portion of the Lore deck and Mr Borgs listing of some 10 additional races (I forget the exact number but its enough to keep a release schedule going for years).

All* FFG needs to do is get  a base set out and work alongside Mr Borg and they really do have a cash cow.

Chris

 

*OK there is a lot more to the all than listed etc and I don't mean to belittle the difficulties and effort that is going to be needed to get it done but they really do have a wealth of playtested material** out there.

** IF FFG won't use his material I'd love for Mr Borg to release it as PDFs with paper stand up miniatures and rules for a whole race / side at a time - A lad can dream

 






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS