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#1 Bludgeon

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 12:07 AM

Tell me what do you think.

img376.imageshack.us/img376/8566/mino2lm5.jpg



#2 Toad_monk

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 12:35 AM

I like it, a bit boring like the troll but still cool. Looks like a winner to me!



#3 Bludgeon

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 12:57 AM

Next up is my take on fantasy version of archeologist from Timescape:

 

img178.imageshack.us/img178/6878/archeo2bh3.jpg



#4 JCHendee

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 03:52 AM

Overall, these appear well balanced for the game; the only exception might be the Archeologist's ability to buy magic objects.  (Ignoring Place cards seems so-so, but might be okay in the balance.)  Though it is true that complete discarding of an object (placing it on the discard pile instead of a board space) is rare, maybe the cost of him taking it should be a touch higher.  That's a very potent skill if and when the situation occurs.

I would up the cost a bit, and perhaps gold isn't enough.  Maybe tie it to Fate as well, since Fate (in general, not the attribute) outside his control plays a part in such an occurrence. What about 1 Gold AND 1 Fate?  If he doesn't have the resources (Gold) and is able to be ready for the happpenstance opportunity (Fate) he wouldn't be able to recover a lost artifact (magic object). What do you think?



#5 el67che

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 06:20 AM

I like that minotaur..."Cannot wear a Helemt" seems so obvious, but not sure I'd have thought of that.

I wonder if some kind of healing or other bonus in the Maze might not be a good idea given the Minotaur's mythological origins.

All in all quite nice.



#6 Bludgeon

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 06:31 AM

JCHendee said:

Overall, these appear well balanced for the game; the only exception might be the Archeologist's ability to buy magic objects.

If anything, I would consider upping the cost to 2 gold. He only has 2 fate so having his trademark ability cost one would effectively kill it. Hopefully I will be able to playtest it in near future so I'll see how it works out.

el67che said:

I wonder if some kind of healing or other bonus in the Maze might not be a good idea given the Minotaur's mythological origins.

Maze is one card of 100 (200 if you count Reaper). Having an ability that comes into play that rarely is IMO waste of card space.



#7 Bludgeon

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 07:07 AM

Next up is the necromancer. I tried to give him something unique so this character centers around Spirits both encountered by him and by others.

 

img135.imageshack.us/img135/5295/necro1zt0.jpg



#8 JCHendee

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 02:41 PM

The necromancer is interesting, but NIX on affecting enemies attacking other players. That's demigod status; no character should have any abitlity that automatically alters what other characters do, are, or let alone what they encounter elsewhere on the board. That's unbalancing the game as whole.



#9 JCHendee

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 02:46 PM

Bludgeon said:

If anything, I would consider upping the cost to 2 gold. He only has 2 fate so having his trademark ability cost one would effectively kill it. Hopefully I will be able to playtest it in near future so I'll see how it works out.

 

A valid point, but gold isn't really what an archeologist is linked to "in the field"; a lot of luck is at play for them, and you can't buy that. And fate in play can be replentished and gained, so it isn't as crippling as it seems. Plus, getting his hands on magic items is a potent consideration, and gold has always been a gimme in Talisman. Make him work for the power and cost to use that potent ability, since like everyone else, he also still has the chance to draw magic items from the deck.



#10 Bludgeon

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 06:00 PM

What is this demigod you speak about? I recall a card by that name but IIRC it granted spells.



#11 JCHendee

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 03:46 AM

Bludgeon said:

 

What is this demigod you speak about? I recall a card by that name but IIRC it granted spells.

 

 

It's not about a card form 2nd edition or specific type of benefit.  It's a about any character having an ability, skill, power (in this case) that automatically or willfully reaches out beyond itself and makes the game harder for other characters without direction engagment. 

Making all Enemy-Spirits tougher for everyone else without having to do anything, or cost anything, is just one example. It changes the underlying mechanics for all other players and not the character in question. It changes the balance (not between characters but) of one aspect of the game itself, tipping its built in odds slightly (or in some cases severely) in one character's favor. It changes the Talisman world itself through these altered mechanics. That's a demigod - as a metaphor.



#12 Bludgeon

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 04:39 AM

JCHendee said:

It's not about a card form 2nd edition or specific type of benefit.  It's a about any character having an ability, skill, power (in this case) that automatically or willfully reaches out beyond itself and makes the game harder for other characters without direction engagment. 

Making all Enemy-Spirits tougher for everyone else without having to do anything, or cost anything, is just one example. It changes the underlying mechanics for all other players and not the character in question. It changes the balance (not between characters but) of one aspect of the game itself, tipping its built in odds slightly (or in some cases severely) in one character's favor. It changes the Talisman world itself through these altered mechanics. That's a demigod - as a metaphor.

But there is soooo much design space right there!

However, if such ideas are a dead end, the ability could require a fate point to active I suppose.

 

Also, I've been thinking about refining last ability of the archeologist. Tell me what you think:

Whenever visiting City, you may pay 3 gold to take a magic object from the discard pile.



#13 myomer

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 09:11 AM

Pretty good stuff in general :)

I like the lose a turn ability on the Minotaur and having the value at 2 is a good balance, not that the ability is unbalancing to begin with. Was the 3rd edition Minotaur your inspiration for this version?

The archeologist ability to get stuff from the discard pile I think is fine as you actually still have to pay 1 gold on top of hoping some objects would actually hit the discard pile. I was thinking of the same mechanic but with spells, myself.

The necromancer's spirit ability.... not to nitpick but it'll sound better if you say subdue instead of bargain; the rolls would still fit. And I'm not sure about the 3/3 strength/craft... I tend to view necros more towards craft...

 



#14 Roy

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 04:28 PM

I think you should leave the Archelogist exactly how you had it . (I assume you can't go rumaging through th ediscard pile at any time you have a gold piece, but only when it has just been placed on the discard pile?)

I think you should dissallow him to retrieve an item he has discarded, so if a player just drinks an elixir, you can pay 1 gold at retrieve it, but if you drink it, you can't keep picking it up and re-drinking it in and endless loop until your gold is exhausted.

Give him another fate point for good measure. :D

The characters in 4.5 are more beefy than previous editions, I think he is quite balanced and magic items (the good ones) don't commonly get discarded.

 

 



#15 Roy

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 04:32 PM

My suggestion for the necromancer would be to lower the fate value to 1 or maybe 2, 3 I think is 2 high.

Can she attack pysc?  Did you leave it off the card? (joke.. as they did in 2nd edition). I think it makes sense though.

Craft should higher than strength too IMO.

I initially thought she was too overpowered, but with the latest characters I think she is balanced.

Great characters! Printing now...



#16 rexaroo

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 04:49 AM

 the minotaur should be immune to the maze.



#17 Bludgeon

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 04:53 AM

rexaroo said:

 the minotaur should be immune to the maze.

Characters should not reference adventure (and other) cards because they come into play too rarely.



#18 JCHendee

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 05:32 AM

Bludgeon said:

rexaroo said:

 

 the minotaur should be immune to the maze.

 

 

Characters should not reference adventure (and other) cards because they come into play too rarely.

Unless combined with a similar Immunity, such as with the Dwarf.



#19 Roy

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 05:47 PM

I think the fate value on the Minotaur is too high, his Strength is already high enough, and he is evil.



#20 The_Warlock

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 11:59 PM

The Minotaur looks pretty fine as it is, but here are my personal suggestions:

To be unaffected by the Maze is not a bad thing if you have a starting Craft of 2 and gives flavour to the character. You might give him some particular advantage in the Maze, for example making it a free place of rest which affects only the Minotaur (heal one Life or restore one Fate), or better, grant him to draw a card on the space as if the Maze was not there. It's not a strong ability, because is linked to a single Adventure Card.

Consider also giving him some bonus in the Mines, as you did with the Archeologist.

I would grant him one more Life, up to a total of 5. 

I don't see the necessity of an Evil Minotaur, just make him Neutral. I know that the old school D&D and mythology give the impression of an Evil monster (this applies also to the Troll), but this should not be mandatory.






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