Jump to content



Photo

Treachery cards trigger "consequence" results?


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 Holy Outlaw

Holy Outlaw

    Member

  • Members
  • 307 posts

Posted 15 January 2011 - 09:53 AM

I believe I've discovered the rulebook answer to this question, but it seems so wrong that I'm basically consulting the community for a second opinion.  The question is this:

Do Treachery cards with Skill Check Ability icons trigger the "consequence" even if the check was not reckless (and therefore, even if the printed text on the card did not resolve)?  

The Exodus rulebook answers this question in multiple places with an unequivocal "yes."

From page 6:

"Some Crisis and Super Criss Cards feature a "consequence" result . . . that is triggered when at least 1 skill Card with a Skill Check Ability icon is played into that Crisis Card's skill check."

Later on the same page:

"If . . . at least 1 Skill Card with a Skill Check Ability icon was played into the check, resolve the "consequence" result."

So the rulebook is bullish on this, and leaves no room for doubt that a treachery card like "Broadcast Location" in the skill check will always trigger the "consequence," even if the check was not reckless, and even if its own ability didn't resolve.

The only reason I'm posting here is because my gut says that it's wrong.  How has everyone else been playing Treachery cards vis a vis "consequences"?  Has your group decided that the "consequence" only resolves on Treachery cards if the check actually was reckless?  (In other words that the skill check ability needs to resolve to trigger the "consequence"?)  This is different from what the rulebook says, but I'm sort of assuming it's how people are playing it and I think it seems more reasonable.  How has your group handled this?



#2 Athenor

Athenor

    Member

  • Members
  • 55 posts

Posted 15 January 2011 - 11:44 AM

Why wouldn't it trigger? They put that symbol onto the Treachery cards for a reason, after all.

 

The logic is simple:

 

If you play a skill card before a skill check that invokes Reckless, then it is a reckless skill check.

If a skill-check card appears in a skill check, then its effects trigger Treachery cards have the extra condition that they only trigger if the check is reckless.

All skill-check cards have a "consequence" symbol on them.

If a crisis card has a consequence effect, it triggers if a consequence symbol shows up in the skill check cards regardless of other effects and it only triggers once.

So in effect, the SYMBOL matters for CONSEQUENCE, while the skill check ability is a completely separate ability.

 

 

... In other words, if you see a skill check with a consequence, be REALLY cautious of making it reckless, as you may be screwed 6 ways from Sunday.



#3 Holy Outlaw

Holy Outlaw

    Member

  • Members
  • 307 posts

Posted 15 January 2011 - 08:50 PM

Athenor said:

... In other words, if you see a skill check with a consequence, be REALLY cautious of making it reckless, as you may be screwed 6 ways from Sunday.

I'm kinda getting that impression ...

Okay, fair enough.  Thanks for the answer.



#4 SMulhern

SMulhern

    Member

  • Members
  • 15 posts

Posted 17 January 2011 - 07:53 PM

There are 130 cards in the Crisis deck (75 Skill Checks, 42 Events, and 13 Cylon Attacks) if you use all of the sets (BSG, Pegasus, and Exodus). 

There are a total of 5 Skill Check cards with the "Consequence" icon- which means that you have a 5-in-130 chance of pulling it, or 5-in-117 chance if playing with the Cylon Fleet option.

Couple that with the 1-in-6 from the Destiny deck... even if two cards are being pulled from it.

 

Is it really something to worry too much about?

S.



#5 Keithustus

Keithustus

    Member

  • Members
  • 57 posts

Posted 18 January 2011 - 02:23 AM

SMulhern said:

There are a total of 5 Skill Check cards with the "Consequence" icon- which means that you have a 5-in-130 chance of pulling it, or 5-in-117 chance if playing with the Cylon Fleet option.

The "Consequence" will trigger whether the skill card played that has the "Skill Check Ability Icon" is a "Skill check" ability or not, meaning that the Treachery cards also trigger them.  Also, I'm confused how there are only "5 Skill Check cards with the 'Consequence'[Skill Check Ability] Icon", since there are multiple copies of those 0-value skill cards.  There are what, 3 copies of each of the colors' new 0-point cards, meaning a total of 15 Skill Check Ability Icon cards in Exodus, plus all/majority (?) of the 26 Treachery cards in Pegasus.  So that's a total of about 40 skill cards with the Skill Check Ability icon out of a total of 176 skill cards, or about 22%.  The percentage of skill cards with the Skill Check Ability Icon drops to 10% if Treachery cards are not included.



#6 Mephisto666

Mephisto666

    Member

  • Members
  • 155 posts

Posted 18 January 2011 - 09:27 AM

Maybe he meant there are 5 CRISIS cards that have a consequence?  I am not sure if that number is correct in that usage, but it makes sense for what he maybe meant to say...?



#7 Holy Outlaw

Holy Outlaw

    Member

  • Members
  • 307 posts

Posted 18 January 2011 - 01:24 PM

SMulhern said:

 There are 130 cards in the Crisis deck (75 Skill Checks, 42 Events, and 13 Cylon Attacks) if you use all of the sets (BSG, Pegasus, and Exodus). 

There are a total of 5 Skill Check cards with the "Consequence" icon- which means that you have a 5-in-130 chance of pulling it, or 5-in-117 chance if playing with the Cylon Fleet option.

Couple that with the 1-in-6 from the Destiny deck... even if two cards are being pulled from it. 

Is it really something to worry too much about?

Are there really only 5?  I didn't realize that.  So the baseline risk of pulling a card with a consequence is a little less than 5% per turn, but I'm not convinced that "per turn" is the way to think about it.  I'd say that over the course of the game, we probably see about 1/3 of the deck, so we'll see 1/3 of those 5 consequence cards each game (1 or 2 per game).  And Treachery is generally the favorite card type of cylons at my table.  After the first cylon has been revealed for a turn or two, we take for granted he's hanging onto a "broadcast location" or some such.  On the other hand, they very rarely hang onto the other Skill Check ability cards very long.

So if the check had to be reckless for the consequence to trigger, the mechanic would have been very easy for the humans to game.  Thanks to your and everyone's replies, now I know that the consequence triggers even if the check isn't reckless, which means it's almost inevitable if you've got revealed cylons.  So I don't know if worried is too strong a word, but the rule is a difference of probably about 1 resource for the fleet each game.  

 



#8 SMulhern

SMulhern

    Member

  • Members
  • 15 posts

Posted 18 January 2011 - 03:04 PM

Keithustus said:

SMulhern said:

 

The "Consequence" will trigger whether the skill card played that has the "Skill Check Ability Icon" is a "Skill check" ability or not, meaning that the Treachery cards also trigger them.  Also, I'm confused how there are only "5 Skill Check cards with the 'Consequence'[Skill Check Ability] Icon", since there are multiple copies of those 0-value skill cards.  There are what, 3 copies of each of the colors' new 0-point cards, meaning a total of 15 Skill Check Ability Icon cards in Exodus, plus all/majority (?) of the 26 Treachery cards in Pegasus.  So that's a total of about 40 skill cards with the Skill Check Ability icon out of a total of 176 skill cards, or about 22%.  The percentage of skill cards with the Skill Check Ability Icon drops to 10% if Treachery cards are not included.

There are a total of 5 Crisis Cards with the Consequence icon- which was how I came up with the 5-in-117 or 5-in-130 chance of one of those cards being drawn.

There are (with the Pegasus and Exodus expansions), 30 Skill Cards each for Politics, Leadership, Tactics, Piloting, and Engineering; 26 Skill Cards for Treachery - which brings a total of (5 skills) x (3 cards in each set with Skill Check Icons) = 15.  The Treachery cards all have the Skill Check icons, but require a "Movement", "Action", a situational condition, or a "Reckless Skill Check" to activate.

Pulling a Crisis card with a Consequence will not trigger a Treachery card - as the conditions for the card must be met prior to it being played.

As an example:

The Crisis Deck reveals a "Threat of a Supernova", a Skill Check DC 10 (Leadership, Piloting, Engineering) with a Consequence.  No player modifies the Skill Check prior to the cards being collected from all players.  On revealing the cards collected, there are two cards with the Skill Check icon, both from the Treachery deck- "Broadcast Location" and "Human Weakness".

As the Skill Check was not made Reckless, the "Broadcast Location" (Reckless Skill Check: Place 1 basestar in front of Galactica and 1 civilian ship behind Galactica. Only 1 of this ability may be resolved in each Skill check.) does NOT resolve.  As there is not an action to give, the Human Weakness (Action: If at least 1 Human player is in the "Brig" or "Detention", reduce the highest resource by 1.) does not resolve.  The Consequence on the "Threat of a Super Nova" DOES resolve, resulting in a Basestar firing upon the Galactica.  (Then, the Activate Heavy Raiders/Centurions will resolve during the Activate Cylon Ships step, and the Jump Track will be advanced during the Prepare For Jump Step.)

Another Example:

The Crisis Deck reveals a "Strange Beacon", a Skill Check DC 13 (Tactics, Piloting, Engineering). No player modifies the Skill Check prior to the cards being collected from all players. On revealing the cards collected, there are three cards with the Skill Check icon- Iron Will (Leadership), Protect The Fleet (Piloting), and By Your Command (Treachery).

Totalling up all the values, we find that we have Tactics- score 6, Piloting- score 5, Engineering- score 2, Treachery- score -1.  The total collected for the Skill Check is 12.  Resolve cards with Skill Check icons now.

Protect the Fleet- {Skill Check: If at least 3 strength in piloting Skill Cards are in this skill check, the current player may activate one unmanned viper.} - so, one unmanned Viper is activated by the current player.

Iron Will- {Skill Check: If the total strength in this skill check is within 4 of the difficulty, do not trigger the fail effect. If total strength in this skill check is 0 or less, lose 1 morale.} - the Fail affect of Strange Beacon is not activated, as the total score of the skill check- 12- was within four of the target number- 13.  (The skill check was not passed, but the fail effect is not triggered.)

By Your Command- {Reckless Skill Check: Activate all Raiders, Heavy Raiders and occupation forces (but not centurions). Only 1 of this ability may be resolved in each Skill check.} - as this is not a Reckless Skill Check, this card does not take effect.
 

Hope this clears up the confusion of my earlier reply.

S.



#9 Holy Outlaw

Holy Outlaw

    Member

  • Members
  • 307 posts

Posted 18 January 2011 - 03:39 PM

 That is helpful.  Thanks!



#10 Andreas_Petersson

Andreas_Petersson

    Member

  • Members
  • 21 posts

Posted 15 September 2011 - 08:49 AM

I know its not like, any type of answer for you, but we just go all "treachery cards always trigger and take effect" :) it's amazing how bad we cylon play so, we added it just to make it harder for the humans as they more or less always win. Maybe cos I'm such a bad cylon player..



#11 ronsen_04

ronsen_04

    Member

  • Members
  • 107 posts

Posted 06 November 2011 - 05:29 AM

Athenor said:

Why wouldn't it trigger? They put that symbol onto the Treachery cards for a reason, after all.

... In other words, if you see a skill check with a consequence, be REALLY cautious of making it reckless, as you may be screwed 6 ways from Sunday.

The idea here is to create more paranoia.  If you throw skill cards into the fray despite their possible effect, you either failed to fully grasp the consequence of your doing or you are doing it for a reason.  Either way, you'll find yourself at the top of the humans' "Next character to lock up or kill" list.  And rightfully so.  :D



#12 Skowza

Skowza

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,131 posts

Posted 06 November 2011 - 02:21 PM

A little late getting in on this discussion, but our group has always triggered consequences from treachery cards too.  Nice to hear there is consensus about this from pretty much everyone though.






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS