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Exodus versus Pegasus: Which is more useful?


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#1 GrumpyBatman

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 01:39 PM

I have the base game, but neither expansion and I have not had an oppotunity to play either expansion. Can any of you who have played both expansions tell me your thoughts on which has more useful additions to an already great game? I would also like to know why think so as well.

Thanks!

Mike



#2 Keithustus

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 02:02 PM

Pegasus is fun but it's too one sided...there's not as much in it for the Cylons as for humans, so Pegasus leads to the humans winning too often.  Exodus seems to have a lot more variety, as well as giving you options to make the game harder for both sides.



#3 XAos

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Posted 15 January 2011 - 05:10 AM

I agree with Keithustus. Pegasus chxnges game balence to the point where a competetant team of humans can't loose.

Exodus seems a lot more balenced. With some options favouring humans & some cyclons.

Personally I have (and want) both. Since Pegasus has some cool plastic Basestars & replacements for some of the skill cards in the basic game. 



#4 TheFlatline

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Posted 15 January 2011 - 09:13 AM

XAos said:

 

I agree with Keithustus. Pegasus chxnges game balence to the point where a competetant team of humans can't loose.

 

 

I strongly disagree with this.

Go check out the team stats thread over at boardgamegeek.com, where around 70 base games have been finished & logged and 40 or so Pegasus games have been finished in the play-by-forum area.

You'll see that the win/loss ratio is pretty much *exactly* the same for Pegasus as for the base game. Cylons win around 56% of the time.

It's an interesting thread, and while there isn't a large enough sample to make definitive statements one way or another in some capacities, it's a vastly larger sample than any one person can expect to provide, and it shows that over the entire average of Pegasus, things balance out similar to the base game. Work on incorporating Exodus into the suite of tools to play by forum is underway, and in six months we'll probably have numbers on Exodus too.

The forum is doing weird stuff to my link postings, but below is the link to the relevant thread:

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#5 Ringarin

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 12:56 AM

I can say that Pegasus is a nice expansion. I can also say that if you have to choose just one I'd do Exodus. The reason is simply that we will probably use at least two of the varients each game we play from now on from the Exodus expansion. The New Caprica stuff is in the exodus box and not even brought out any more. We have tried going to New Caprica and found that it feels like the cylons don't have an easier time winning that it just makes the game longer.

I'd still say to get both as there are a lot of fun elements to the Pegasus one, but if you do one do the Exodus one. You will use the options there more often I think. I know we will/are.



#6 dth

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 09:49 PM

If you had to get one, 100% Exodus. The Cylon Fleet option alone plugs a huge hole in the game (replacing crappy Cylon attack cards and providing huge balance for the Pilots).

Pegasus is interesting and the Cylon Leaders / Cylon Sympathiser card do go some way toward fixing the 4 and 6 player game but they aren't 100% perfect solutions.

The Pegasus itself is a bit of a white elephant. You'll use it loads at first and think it is unbalancing but after a while, you'll realise that there are more important things to be doing and Pegasus will end up being either a damage soak or an occasional useful option. New Caprica is generally regarded as not very good.

Treachery Cards are interesting and would provide the Cylons with a boost if they went far enough. Unfortunately, the majority of the Treachery effects require someone to make a skill check "Reckless" (through the use of another card) to have an effect... and after the Sleeper Phase, no one makes checks Reckless. Plus, getting Treachery Cards into people's hands can be a challenge, if you're playing with all the Crisis Cards...

Pegasus is a good expansion. Exodus is  better.



#7 Innsmouth13

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 04:48 AM

Pegasus is easier to add and a little more stright forward, granted my group hasn't used new caprica yet.  The exodus elements, or at least some of them, are going to take awhile to learn cause they are very involved.  My choise is Pegasus if you don't want too many new elements to wrap your head around but TRY to get both a some point. 


You think I suffer from insanity, I don't. I ENJOY EVERY MINUTE OF IT!!


#8 redsimon

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 04:54 AM

IMO Pegasus is the better one. You do not just get the Cylon leaders, which are especially cool in huge 7 player games, but also the nice treachery cards which add a lot of fun to the skill cards and tests, the basestar miniatures, improved cylon locations, and like in Exodus new Crisis and Supercrisis cards. The characters are cool as well, with nasty Cain and other favorites. The Pegasus board itself features amogst other locations the funny airlock, a favorite location of many players. New Caprica is fun for some players, for others not, but IMO is an interesting option that adds variety for me (I prefer it about every second game).

I do not need the cylon fleet option of Exodus. It is actually more fun if a cylon attack card appears and all human players are unnerved. :D



#9 Sorthlador

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 08:21 AM

 After playing well over 50 games of BSG heres my Take

 

Pegasus: We rarely use Cylon leaders because hiding as a human is way more fun. We stopped using New Caprica because its complicated and changes things up in a less fun way (again usually dealing with Cylons trying to hide as humans). However I can't imagine a game with out the ability to execute someone with the air lock! Plus the Base stars are sooo much cooler then those crappy cut outs. And  many of the skill cards are just staples to me now. OH! the replacing the old cylon locations is a great fix. 

 

Exodus: Adds the best element of loyalty cards that help the cylons hide (seeing a theme in what my group likes?). Cool but not that cool trauma which feels more like an add on the a game changer. Kinda like just something else to do. And the fleet option. So for better or worse it means you got to fight a lot more and you can count on the fighting happening. Problem is that you can count on it happening at a certain time, so you can prep to jump right when they show up. I've only played one game of Exodus so maybe it will get better with more experienced players. But that CAG rocks)

 

I LOVE this game and both expansions. And if I had it my way I'd buy an expansion with pegasus, basestars and new loyalty cards. But I can't so My vote would be:

Pegasus - Because overall it fixes/adds the most things to the base game. Some good ways to change the game up if you'd like to thats more the just an add on. And most importantly it adds depth to what the humans and cylons can both do by add losts of options to mess with each other. 


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#10 XAos

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 02:37 AM

TheFlatline said:

 

I strongly disagree with this.

Go check out the team stats thread over at boardgamegeek.com, where around 70 base games have been finished & logged and 40 or so Pegasus games have been finished in the play-by-forum area.

You'll see that the win/loss ratio is pretty much *exactly* the same for Pegasus as for the base game. Cylons win around 56% of the time.

 

 

Can I help it if most play groups make the same basic misstake, which shifts the game balence towards the Cylons?



#11 Holy Outlaw

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 08:17 AM

XAos said:

Can I help it if most play groups make the same basic mistake, which shifts the game balence towards the Cylons?

Quoted for truth.



#12 The Old Man

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 11:16 AM

Ringarin said:

. The New Caprica stuff is in the exodus box and not even brought out any more. We have tried going to New Caprica and found that it feels like the cylons don't have an easier time winning that it just makes the game longer.

Shouldn't this read, "...is in the Pegasus box"?

Can one just get Exodus and skip purchasing Pegasus?  Is there anything key, other than the plastic basestars, that you would miss?



#13 subochre

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 05:33 PM

I like the skill (especially treachery) and crisis cards, but no, there isn't really anything essential. I had worried that the Cylon Fleet Board would be too hard on the humans unless they had Pegasus' firepower, but that doesn't especially seem to be the case, so you'll be fine as long you don't mind playing with the Sympathizer (or one of the other 4/6 player options) rather than a Cylon Leader.  (You might also miss the Airlock and maybe even the revised investigative Committee, but those are easily house ruled into the base game.)



#14 turkinaa

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 06:56 PM

I've played enough BSG with and without both expansions to feel that they both add certain elements to the game.  Once we had a discussion about using Pegasus and treachery with or without the Cylon Fleet.  We have not played with New Caprica nor the Nebula (with the new loyalty cards and such or trauma tokens).

Pegasus can be useful with it's weaponry and taking a few hits for Galtica as well as characters it added.  The treachery cards give a bonus to Cylons because they add more bad cards to the Destiny Deck as well as useful cards, if played correctly, for Cylons.  It also helped "fix" the Cylon locations that were from the base set.

Exodus adds a better option for the Cylon players as well as adds a real feeling of 33 type moments.  The CAG card, additional nuke, additional useful characters, and something for pilots to do are also very nice additions to the game.  We've had games where we've launched vipers and we just sit there in space waiting for one of those attack cards to drop.  Now we have to worry about moving civy ships and clearing the board even after we jump.

Exodus makes it feel like there is more to the game for Cylons while Pegasus adds more for the humans while still giving something for Cylons.  The additional characters, skill cards, and ways to play all become useful (except for maybe New Caprica).  Both expansions are useful in their own ways. 



#15 XAos

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 12:46 AM

Last week, I played my first exodus game, whith multiple declared cylons.

In the end game, Galactica slowed to a crawl as the cylons repeatedly picked the option to slow galatica's jump prep (or increase their own)

If you play this option, expect the games play length to (sometimes) extend an extra hour. Or keep your action cards which add to the dice roll, to adjust dice rolls on this cylon action. Overall Exodus seems to be exceptionally well balenced. Except for the first game, all our games have been very close, with Galtica in jump prep for the winning jump at game end.



#16 TheFlatline

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 08:33 PM

XAos said:

TheFlatline said:

 

I strongly disagree with this.

Go check out the team stats thread over at boardgamegeek.com, where around 70 base games have been finished & logged and 40 or so Pegasus games have been finished in the play-by-forum area.

You'll see that the win/loss ratio is pretty much *exactly* the same for Pegasus as for the base game. Cylons win around 56% of the time.

 

 

Can I help it if most play groups make the same basic misstake, which shifts the game balence towards the Cylons?

 

I'm waiting to hear what this perfect, infallible strategy is.



#17 Keithustus

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 02:08 AM

turkinaa said:

Exodus adds a better option for the Cylon players as well as adds a real feeling of 33 type moments.

Speaking of "33"-type moments, here's a better version:

files.boardgamegeek.com/file/download/69y2cjzhf5/Thirty_-_three.jpg

 

Also, yes, even if not playing with Pegasus, use its Cylon locations (and reveal steps) and Investigative Comittees.  Big improvements.



#18 XAos

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 05:08 AM

TheFlatline said:

 

I'm waiting to hear what this perfect, infallible strategy is.

Iv'e stated it elsewhere on these forums, never, ever, under any conditions. waste an action drawing a quorum card.

 



#19 ronsen_04

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 01:20 AM

If you were to (or had to) choose just one expansion, I'd recommend Exodus. Not because it's the better one but because it gives you more variety of what to include and what to leave out. Pegasus doesn't do that for you. If you include Ellen Tigh and the Cylon Leaders, you also have to include Treachery cards. If you include Treachery cards and the aforementioned characters, you pretty much need the Pegasus board. You can leave out the New Caprica board (which I do most of the time) but if you want to include some of Pegasus you will have to include the majority.

That said, I have to mention that the characters of Pegasus are a fun addition. I own both expansions and I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

About this talk of specific expansions and the core game being too one-sided:

The one thing I keep seeing at cons in both Europe and the US, in different gaming groups wherever I go, is that it really depends on who is playing. Some players are more competitive than others. Some groups are more competitive than others. Some players or groups grasp the depth of BSG (with or without expansions) much better than others. Some players will discuss possible actions more than others, some will even make a decision simply based on the fact that anyone could be a Cylon and therefore they don't trust anyone, period. So if you play with the same kind of people most of the time then, yes, your experience will likely be the same.

In my experience it strongly depends on how well you know the game and expansion(s) you're playing. If the experience is bunched up on the human side, yes, then the humans will most likely win...and vice-versa. Some players have a great poker face and some don't. There is this one player I can read like an open book. And I tend to play him like a fiddle. With other players that doesn't work so well.

What I'm trying to say is this: if you think BSG, with or without specific expansion(s), is too one-sided then go and find a different group at a local game store and play. I garantee you will have a very different experience...if this new group plays a different style.



#20 Eunomiac

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 01:03 PM

XAos said:

 

TheFlatline said:

 

 

I'm waiting to hear what this perfect, infallible strategy is.

 

 

Iv'e stated it elsewhere on these forums, never, ever, under any conditions. waste an action drawing a quorum card.

 

 

Well that's an overstatement, and I doubt it's the "single basic mistake" that I seem to have missed the memo on.

This is just an educated guess, but it may be to execute the Admiral at the end of New Caprica, no matter what.  (Ellen, too, if she hasn't used her once-a-game yet.  ... And probably anyone who would become Admiral after the executed character has chosen his new character.  Bah, just kill everybody.) 

Execution of a human costs only 1 morale, whereas not executing a Cylon Admiral gift-wraps the Cylons a victory (... for reasons I can't recall; I'm only vaguely familiar with New Caprica).  Execution guarantees he'll be on the human team---so he'll want a human Admiral---which means it's best for him to pick a Military Leader to become that (guaranteed-human) Admiral once the execution is resolved.

Exodus, with its Loyalty Deck shenanegans (of a most awesome variety), fixes this by removing the "guaranteed-human" part from executions.






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