Jump to content



Photo

Wonder Tokens' Shape


  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 Scud-O

Scud-O

    Member

  • Members
  • 20 posts

Posted 23 November 2010 - 04:00 AM

We have been playing that building a wonder does NOT cover the icons in the associated square because of the tokens' shape (the cut corners). You can certainly put the token down and still the icons in both corners (Production AND Trade, although double production symbols tend to be a little obscured). Is this the intention or do wonders fully "cover" the square's existing icons?



#2 Konradius

Konradius

    Member

  • Members
  • 7 posts

Posted 24 November 2010 - 07:43 PM

It looks to me like a feature that was cut (unintentional pun :) )

The rules clearly state buildings, great leaders and wonders supersede the benefits from the underlying tile.



#3 squaresville

squaresville

    Member

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 28 November 2010 - 05:55 AM

Konradius said:

The rules clearly state buildings, great leaders and wonders supersede the benefits from the underlying tile.

I would love to see where you see in the rules that these are clearly stated, because a lot of people are apparently missing it.

After a visual example of how buildings supersede the underlying square, the rules go on to state (in bold no less) that Wonders are not buildings and the abilities that affect  buildings do not apply to wonders unless explicitly stated. Our group cannot find such statement and so, without FFG clarification are going with Wonders do NOT overwrite the underlying square's icons.

It's almost worse with great people as the rules only vaguely say "Mechanically, great people markers work similarly to building markers." Again, without FFG ruling, we decided that this is enough grounds to say that great people, unlike wonders, DO overwrite the tiles they are on.

As almost everything in this game revolves around the resources one has access to, this is a huge point that I'd really like to see FFG clarify. I've emailed their rules answer address about it but haven't heard back yet.



#4 Osaka

Osaka

    Member

  • Members
  • 222 posts

Posted 28 November 2010 - 06:35 AM

When it talks about abilities that affect buildings not affecting wonders, that's abilities, not rules.  So a culture card/tech that lets me destroy a building, for example, would not let me do the same to a wonder, unless explicitly stated.

On the other hand, I can't find anywhere in the rules where it talks about wonders having any of the same rules as buildings, and it doesn't state that their abilities replace those on the board.  Nor does it state that for great people, unless I'm missing something.

Thematically, if a building replaces the benefits of a space, I would presume that the wonders would as well, being generally much bigger than your average building ;-)  Game-wise, however, I can't see them wanting an ancient wonder to provide less for a city than a temple.  That being said, they do have special abilities...

The shape of the great people markers make it clear that their intention was to act like buildings with the exception of being able to be placed in reserve (when aquired or replaced) but the rules aren't clear on this.



#5 swornabsent

swornabsent

    Member

  • Members
  • 6 posts

Posted 28 November 2010 - 07:00 AM

Came here to pose this exact question. Like the OP, I was initially inclined to think Wonders did not overwrite tile resources because of their shape and vague ruling wording. Then I got to Great People, though, and had the same rule ambiguity with a shape that clearly was not intended to supplement a tile's existing resources. Seems like, as far as I can gather from the printed rules, anyway, what is true for one is true for the other, so for the moment I'm playing Wonders overwrite. Not to mention the backwardness if Great People did and Wonders did not (one person vs. giant construction?). Anyway, also looking for an explicit clarification.



#6 CapnZapp

CapnZapp

    Member

  • Members
  • 15 posts

Posted 29 November 2010 - 02:38 AM

I would say that if the shape of Wonder tokens were in any way significant, this would be mentioned by the rules.

Barring a ruling to the contrary, I would run the game with wonders and great people replacing the square's icons exactly in the way buildings do.



#7 Smoo

Smoo

    Member

  • Members
  • 32 posts

Posted 29 November 2010 - 08:14 AM

CapnZapp said:

 

I would say that if the shape of Wonder tokens were in any way significant, this would be mentioned by the rules.

Barring a ruling to the contrary, I would run the game with wonders and great people replacing the square's icons exactly in the way buildings do.

 

 

Agreed. This issue seems blatantly clear to me.

Put a wonder token on a forest or a resource icons and tell me how much is "uncovered". Not only is the cut of the tile completely useless in those situations, but this is not an area the rules would overlook if it were to actually apply.



#8 XAos

XAos

    Member

  • Members
  • 96 posts

Posted 30 November 2010 - 12:30 AM

Konradius said:

The rules clearly state buildings, great leaders and wonders supersede the benefits from the underlying tile.

Can anyone quote the page number/paragraph where this is written. Because I can't find it....?

The rules clearly say that "buildings supersede the tile" I can find no equivalent rule for wonders or famous people.

 



#9 scimon

scimon

    Member

  • Members
  • 66 posts

Posted 30 November 2010 - 03:00 AM

See I was thinking, if I put the Great people diagonally on the board I could show all the stuff on the square under them.

But I won't do that, because if that's how I was supposed to place them the rules would say so with a picture showing it done.

The only rules that relate to putting tiles on the board state the the tile placed overrides what's on the square under it. The only place that it mentions Wonders and Great people being different is it says on page 17 'Important Note: Wonders are not buildings, and abilities that affect buildings do not affect wonders unless explicitly stated.' That's abilities not rules.

But on the other hand, it's your game. Knock yourselves out.



#10 Smoo

Smoo

    Member

  • Members
  • 32 posts

Posted 30 November 2010 - 06:55 AM

One of the posters over at BGG claims to have gotten word from Kevin that Wonders DO in fact cover all the icons in the tile below. The person who is claiming this was previously arguing on the side that they DIDN'T cover the icons, so I find it hard to believe she'd be lying about this.



#11 axmeister

axmeister

    Member

  • Members
  • 21 posts

Posted 01 January 2011 - 01:14 AM

the only benifit i can see of making the peices different shapes is that it is eaier to find when all the peices are mixed up together(as there aren't enough packets to contain them individually) this may also be the reason why the wound tokens have arrow shaped slits cut into them






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS