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Caverns of Thuul


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#1 eNTi

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 07:01 PM

again, i'm highly confused by descents ruling and over-ruling it's own rules while making it utterly unclear what to do in certain situations. this time it's "caverns of thuul", we just almost finished for the first time since we play rtl. how do you people "leave" the dungeon and get back to the map, where you entered the dungeon in the first place? there is no teleporter at the 4th level. the rules state, that you can leave the 4th level at any time through the TELEPORTER. there are only glyphs on this map. since wording is EVERYTHING in this game, you can't get back on the map normaly but have to flee to tamalir?

secondly, we were trying to find a clear answer as to what level gives you the 4 conquest and 250 per killed boss in that particular legendary area. have there been any significant rule changes i might have missed, because in other news the rules specify that you only get 2 conquest per dragon kill. it doesn't even say ANYTHING on the matter of money. do you still get 250 coins, or only 100 or nothing at all, since there are already those gemstone piles worth 1000gp each?

to quote one of the most prominet answering machine (thank you Corbon) on these forums twice:

(1) http://www.fantasyfl...&efpag=0#409442

(2) http://www.fantasyfl...7&efpag=1#11138

 

!confusion!



#2 Corbon

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 08:04 PM

eNTi said:

again, i'm highly confused by descents ruling and over-ruling it's own rules while making it utterly unclear what to do in certain situations. this time it's "caverns of thuul", we just almost finished for the first time since we play rtl. how do you people "leave" the dungeon and get back to the map, where you entered the dungeon in the first place? there is no teleporter at the 4th level. the rules state, that you can leave the 4th level at any time through the TELEPORTER. there are only glyphs on this map. since wording is EVERYTHING in this game, you can't get back on the map normaly but have to flee to tamalir?

secondly, we were trying to find a clear answer as to what level gives you the 4 conquest and 250 per killed boss in that particular legendary area. have there been any significant rule changes i might have missed, because in other news the rules specify that you only get 2 conquest per dragon kill. it doesn't even say ANYTHING on the matter of money. do you still get 250 coins, or only 100 or nothing at all, since there are already those gemstone piles worth 1000gp each?

to quote one of the most prominet answering machine (thank you Corbon) on these forums twice:

(1) http://www.fantasyfl...&efpag=0#409442

(2) http://www.fantasyfl...7&efpag=1#11138

 

!confusion!

Note that this legendary level has specific level details which override the 'normal' rules.

'Normal' rules are that the last level (usually third, but 4th on legendary dungeons) has leaders worth 4CT and 250coins, and all 'higher' levels have leaders worth 2CT and 100 coins.

Because there are special Level rules for this level they override the normal levels. However these special rules are not 'publicly' available (they are not in any publicly published PDF which means that they can't easily be checked by most answerers).

In order to get accurate answers you need to post exactly all relevant text (which may still not be accurate as I suspect you are working from a translation?)

I've personally never actually played this level - in 4 completed campaigns we've always felt that the reward was not even close to being worth blowing out the CT cost of going up against a 4 level dungeon with multiple Dragon bosses. So I've never closely read the text with an eye to working aout what teh exact rewards should be.

The CT value is pretty clear, form what people have posted in the past.
Each Dragon is worth 2CT, because the special rules overide the normal rules (the 2nd quote above was unaware of special rules and corrected in teh net two posts in that thread. No bosses in this dungeon will be worth 4CT.

Cash value hasn't been mentioned before so I'm hesitant to repeat the earlier mistake and answer without reading the 'special text' involved.

And sorry, also no answer on the 'teleporter' issue. I've never seen the word teleporter used in Descent... you'll need to post the exact relevant text.

 



#3 Corbon

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 11:40 PM

Ok, I got to my books and read the level instructions carefully.

There is actually only 1 boss in this level, the Gemstone Dragon, but the heroes can kill it up to three times as it keeps reforming due to the magic of the Caverns. Hence the special rule that the heroes get 2CT each time they kill it.
In other levels where leaders can come back the heroes sometimes get the reward the first time, or the final time the kill the leader, but it is usually the 'usual' reward - this time it is a different reward, each time the boss is killed.

Consequently AFAICT there is no direct monetary reward for killing the boss - the 2CT reward is a replacement reward. OTOH there is 5000 gold and a chest available here, so there isn;t much 'need' for a little extra reward.

 

Regarding exiting the level it says the heroes may leave any time through the glyphs, which seems fairly straight forward. It does mean that they are definitely going to end the week back in Tamalir though, rather than maintain map position.



#4 eNTi

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 12:28 AM

right... i've read the respective "Legendary Areas" section of the rulebook again and it says the dungeon ends "normally" via glyph or portal (not as i wrongly stated, teleporter). since there is no portal in the caverns of thuul the only way to leave the dungeon is via glpyhs to tamalir.

regarding the gains of that legendary area we went in just before we hit silver. we are almost done with the 4th level (only one side arm remains) and even though our ol had evil genious out in his first round in the first dungeon we are about equal in ct. we got a very strong team.



#5 duhtch

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 11:00 AM

and you do know you can't enter legendary dungeons unless you are below CT count to the OL right?



#6 eNTi

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 06:38 PM

we timed it, so that our ct where 97/98 before we went to the location. we hit silver just the first level of the dungeon.



#7 mikaeru

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Posted 23 November 2010 - 02:35 AM

Very nice timing :)

What do you mean by very strong team?



#8 gran_orco

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 07:09 AM

We have some questions regarding this level:

-Should heroes know that they cannot take another gemstone pile (encounter token) if they do not defeat the dragon first?

-Should heroes know that they can exit the dungeon through a glyph?

-In the spanish book, it says that a gemstone pile gives 1000 coins to all the players. I can interpret it as "each player" (4000) or the "party" (1000). Which is correct? There is a rumor with a 2500 reward easier than this, so I think that the difficult should be comparable with the reward. I think that it means 4000 in total. Am I right?

Which information should be available to the heroes? The OL should read all the info in a normal dungeon level card, but this is different because it is like a vanilla scenario. If heroes do not want to defeat the dragon and they start to run around trying to finish this legendary area they can lose a lot of turns... and CT.

What must know a party when they reach a level like this?



#9 gran_orco

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 11:18 AM

gran_orco said:

We have some questions regarding this level:

-Should heroes know that they cannot take another gemstone pile (encounter token) if they do not defeat the dragon first?

-Should heroes know that they can exit the dungeon through a glyph?

-In the spanish book, it says that a gemstone pile gives 1000 coins to all the players. I can interpret it as "each player" (4000) or the "party" (1000). Which is correct? There is a rumor with a 2500 reward easier than this, so I think that the difficult should be comparable with the reward. I think that it means 4000 in total. Am I right?

Which information should be available to the heroes? The OL should read all the info in a normal dungeon level card, but this is different because it is like a vanilla scenario. If heroes do not want to defeat the dragon and they start to run around trying to finish this legendary area they can lose a lot of turns... and CT.

What must know a party when they reach a level like this?

Nobody knows?



#10 Corbon

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:55 PM

gran_orco said:

gran_orco said:

 

We have some questions regarding this level:

-Should heroes know that they cannot take another gemstone pile (encounter token) if they do not defeat the dragon first?

-Should heroes know that they can exit the dungeon through a glyph?

-In the spanish book, it says that a gemstone pile gives 1000 coins to all the players. I can interpret it as "each player" (4000) or the "party" (1000). Which is correct? There is a rumor with a 2500 reward easier than this, so I think that the difficult should be comparable with the reward. I think that it means 4000 in total. Am I right?

Which information should be available to the heroes? The OL should read all the info in a normal dungeon level card, but this is different because it is like a vanilla scenario. If heroes do not want to defeat the dragon and they start to run around trying to finish this legendary area they can lose a lot of turns... and CT.

What must know a party when they reach a level like this?

 

 

Nobody knows?

It requires access to the actual book to read the correct wordings - these are not available in any pdf etc.
But also exactly what to tell the players in normal quests is actually a very gray area (and the legendary dungeons follow normal quest mechanics rather than AC level mechanics in this respect). In many cases if you only tell the heroes what is in the dark boxes they literally cannot complete the quest.

FWIW, without checking the actual english wording, I expect that giving 1000 coins to the party is correct not 4000. That also fits with what the spanish actually says (it should be 'each' not 'all' for clarity if it was 4000).
Heroes always know they can exit the dungeon through a glyph. You shouldn't need to tell them, unless you have been playing it wrong anyway.
I'm not sure if they should be told they can't take another gemstone if they haven't killed the dragon first. I personally think that one is a fair cop. They are supposed to kill the dragon. Loot and scoot is a fair tactic at times, but not in this Legendary dungeon, and if they try to game the system in a Legendary dungeon that has specific (perhaps secret) rules against doing so, it might just cost them some time and CT, tough ****. There is a time and place for loot and scoot ('normal' dungeons) and there is a time and place for completing the job properly and not just looting and scooting (rumour and Legendary dungeons). But that is just my personal opinion, where I personally draw the line in the sand between common thieves and heroic adventurers.



#11 gran_orco

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 11:18 PM

Thank you, Corbon.






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