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(Very Rare) Rules Question


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#1 allstar64

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 09:27 PM

Soooooooooooooooooooo

We had a very rare rules question pop up recently. 2 People had enterd the same other world and both were in the first area (2 gates to the place were open). We had 1 Find Gate spell. Now if person A casts find gate succesfully is there enough time to give Find Gate to Person B before Person A returns to Arkham so Person B has it.

 

On the one hand you might argue that Find Gate happens imediatly and that they are no longer in the same place so it can't be done.

On the other hand it was ruled that trading can happen at any time exceppt in battle. Either way it was the movement phase and we were in the same place.

 

Also unless you can show me an official ruling I don't want anyone to say that items can't be traded in Other Worlds. We were in the same place so we always play it that trading is fair game.

 

We decided that the trade could NOT happen since we were doing pretty well and the chance we'd need Person B to get out of the OW a turn early was small at best.



#2 godfeather

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 10:31 PM

The find gate says immediately return, so I guess you can't trade it.



#3 cim

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 11:42 PM

Since it's cast and exhaust, you'd be handing over an exhausted copy of the spell, so Person B wouldn't be able to use it even if they were given it. I agree that there isn't time to trade it anyway, though.



#4 Dam

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 12:14 AM

cim said:

Since it's cast and exhaust, you'd be handing over an exhausted copy of the spell, so Person B wouldn't be able to use it even if they were given it. I agree that there isn't time to trade it anyway, though.

Of course, there is an Ally, Zebulon Whateley maybe, too lazy to check, who can be exhausted to un-exhaust a Spell.


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#5 Nyogtha

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 04:14 AM

It could be argued that Other World locations are so vast as to make meeting another player there extremely unlikely; indeed in some games we disallow trading in such locations for that reason.  Of course that would be conjecture/interpretation and not an official rule, so I would personally agree with Godfeather; immediate, so no chance of sharing.



#6 ColtsFan76

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 05:46 AM

godfeather said:

The find gate says immediately return, so I guess you can't trade it.

That would be my interpretation.  Most things in Arkham have to be completed before anything can interrupt them.  So if you cast Find Gate, it would send you back to Arkham before you have the opportunity to trade. 

Now, if there happened to be another investigator on your gate when you return to Arkham, I would say you can trade it to that investigator.



#7 allstar64

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 07:59 AM

Dam said:

cim said:

 

Since it's cast and exhaust, you'd be handing over an exhausted copy of the spell, so Person B wouldn't be able to use it even if they were given it. I agree that there isn't time to trade it anyway, though.

 

 

Of course, there is an Ally, Zebulon Whateley maybe, too lazy to check, who can be exhausted to un-exhaust a Spell.

I always like to see who is good at thnking outsie the box. Yes Zebulon Whateleyis indeed the ally with that ability and yes I did have him (Expedition leader).

Like I said it was a very rare question since the situation where it's useful is rare but nonethless it did come up. I'm glad most people ruled it the same way I did.



#8 Dam

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 09:32 AM

allstar64 said:

I always like to see who is good at thnking outsie the box. Yes Zebulon Whateleyis indeed the ally with that ability and yes I did have him (Expedition leader).

Hehe, my thinking normally doesn't even begin anywhere near the box and only goes further away the more I spend thinking .


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#9 jhaelen

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 12:52 AM

godfeather said:

The find gate says immediately return, so I guess you can't trade it.
That's my interpretation, as well.

Trading items in general should be fine in the other worlds. So far I've been playing it that you don't even have to be in the same space of the other world to trade.

I _think_ the rules say, trading is fine for investigators in the other worlds without referring to the individual spaces. I remember a game or two where that has been handy to jump into a gate after another investigator to give her something important at the cost of losing the second investigator in time and space when the first closed the gate.



#10 thorgrim

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 01:06 AM

jhaelen said:

I _think_ the rules say, trading is fine for investigators in the other worlds without referring to the individual spaces.

 

Actually the rules say "An investigator in the same street area, Other World area, or location as another investigator may trade...". And since the Other World movement section calls each half an area, I'd take this to mean trading is only allowed on the same half.



#11 ColtsFan76

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 02:36 AM

thorgrim said:

jhaelen said:

 

I _think_ the rules say, trading is fine for investigators in the other worlds without referring to the individual spaces.

 

 

 

Actually the rules say "An investigator in the same street area, Other World area, or location as another investigator may trade...". And since the Other World movement section calls each half an area, I'd take this to mean trading is only allowed on the same half.

That is correct.  The OW has 2 individual spaces.  In order to trade, you have to be on the same space, not just the same OW.



#12 StarBurn

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 10:26 AM

It is a general rule that one must finish an action before starting a new one, it is only specificly telling players they may not trade while fighting because fighting consists itself of rounds, and seperate actions. Also, you couldn't trade someone before you fight the monster in the space ...no ?! I mean its says you must immediately fight or evade the monster...Immediatly usually means you don't get a chance for anything more.



#13 allstar64

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 01:07 PM

StarBurn said:

It is a general rule that one must finish an action before starting a new one, it is only specificly telling players they may not trade while fighting because fighting consists itself of rounds, and seperate actions. Also, you couldn't trade someone before you fight the monster in the space ...no ?! I mean its says you must immediately fight or evade the monster...Immediatly usually means you don't get a chance for anything more.

Actually I think the rules say that you fight a monster when you try to end your movement or leave a square with a monster on it. This means that there are a few seconds between moving onto a space and stopping/moving off where trading is allowed. I might be wrong but we've always played trading before combat is fair game.



#14 ColtsFan76

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 03:18 PM

allstar64 said:

StarBurn said:

 

It is a general rule that one must finish an action before starting a new one, it is only specificly telling players they may not trade while fighting because fighting consists itself of rounds, and seperate actions. Also, you couldn't trade someone before you fight the monster in the space ...no ?! I mean its says you must immediately fight or evade the monster...Immediatly usually means you don't get a chance for anything more.

 

 

Actually I think the rules say that you fight a monster when you try to end your movement or leave a square with a monster on it. This means that there are a few seconds between moving onto a space and stopping/moving off where trading is allowed. I might be wrong but we've always played trading before combat is fair game.

Yes, trading right before or right after combat is legal. 

All it is trying to prevent is trading during the actual combat.  "Oh crap, I failed my Shrivling Spell, toss me another quick."  That is what this rule is trying to prevent.



#15 StarBurn

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 07:28 PM

I remember a ruling that said you can cast spells before deciding to evade or fight the monster, never actually played it...But I remember something of the kind from kevins awnswers I think.



#16 jhaelen

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 09:09 PM

thorgrim said:

Actually the rules say "An investigator in the same street area, Other World area, or location as another investigator may trade...". And since the Other World movement section calls each half an area, I'd take this to mean trading is only allowed on the same half.
I agree.

Hmpf, since I'm using the German version of the game, I'll have to check what the translation says. If it's wrong or ambigous I'll make a post on the German Arkham Horror forums. Thanks!



#17 jhaelen

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 07:58 AM

Okay, I've checked the German rules and it's indeed the translation that is in error. It just says the investigators have to be in the same "other world".

So, I've made a post in the German AH rules forum to notify the publisher and German players of the error.






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