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Raising mental ability scores above 10... need pointers...


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#1 hnakkabuff

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 07:06 AM

 Hello... I do not know if this has been asked before but:

How can one increase the mental stats above 10? 
The physical stats can easily be increased by using "Inhumanity" and "Zen"
as per the "Limits on Human Characteristics" on p.9 of the core book, it clearly states:
"...namely, the Inhumanity and Zen. Inhumanity allows a character to obtain the
benefits of physical characteristics to a score of 13, while Zen completely destroys
the limits, granting characters the capacity to use the maximum advantage of his
attributes."

As I understand it, those ki powers allow for only physical stats to increase past the score of 10.

On the same page and the same "Limits of Human Characteristics" there's also hinted at an example
given for a wizard:
"That is, how does one justify to a wizard, given his already superhuman capacity to cast magic, that
he can't increase his Power beyond 10 and get the additional benefits?"

There are no rules or guidelines regarding the increase of the mental characteristics. Heck there are no
rules regarding the increase of the other ones as well but there are the Ki powers that allow the physical
stats to increase.

I'm asking this because I'm playing a Mentalist (he's mute and uses Mental Communication to speak), he
currently has 11 in Willpower which the GM grudgingly aggreed to allow but held fast to the rule: 10 is the Human Maxima.

It would nice to have an official response to this as this particular breed of a GM will probably only listen to an official clarification.

Ofcourse, the GM ultimately has the final decision and I will have to live with it.

with thanks in advance...
 



#2 Hrathen

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 07:19 AM

It says on the sections on stats, that the same restrictions that are on physical stats are not on non-physical stats.  The rules say that you can have a non-physical go up to 13. 


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#3 hnakkabuff

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 07:57 AM

 Where exactly does the text in the book say that?



#4 Windraider

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 08:56 PM

That would be under the first listing in the advantages section. up to a 11 for physical, up to 13 for mental. But thats also CP spends



#5 hnakkabuff

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 06:04 AM

 But how do I go about raising the mental abilities further? I mean, do I really need to go to the trouble of getting the ZEN Ki Ability?



#6 commanderq

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 08:40 AM

if you want them to go above 13 inhumanity and zen raises it further.

 

but really you need to go past 13?  some ones is power gaming to much.



#7 hnakkabuff

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 04:02 AM

the character I have in mind does not use ANY weapons, he doesn't use shields... in fact he doesn't have a single point invested in blocking or dodging and not even in Wear Armor... he's mute as well and it manifests for him as in he can't make a single sound, if his leg is cut off he won't be able to make a noise... the only noise he can make is a whistling sound and the kind of sound when you press your lips together and force air through them (yep, it's a really annoying sound)...

his ONLY defense revolves around his mentalist abilities, like Psychokinetic Armor, Energy Shield, and the like... so if me thinking about ways to increase his willpower beyond 13 for survival is powergaming, so be it... and I'm also thinking in terms of playing this character for a long long time... 

on a personal note... Psychic Assault + Psychic Illusion is the greatest power combo in the book... I mean what power other than that power can paralyze a person by making it think that the worms and other creepy crawlies are coming out of the ground to swarm around the person, and crawl up his legs and up where the sun don't shine? I mean, imagine a group of soldiers being brought into formation when all of a sudden their commander drops to the ground, rips his pants off and starts digging for wermin while screaming at the top of his lungs "GET THEM OUT!!! GETTHEMOUTGETTHEMOUT!!!" 

 



#8 Hrathen

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 07:30 AM

hnakkabuff said:

the character I have in mind does not use ANY weapons, he doesn't use shields... in fact he doesn't have a single point invested in blocking or dodging and not even in Wear Armor... he's mute as well and it manifests for him as in he can't make a single sound, if his leg is cut off he won't be able to make a noise... the only noise he can make is a whistling sound and the kind of sound when you press your lips together and force air through them (yep, it's a really annoying sound)...

his ONLY defense revolves around his mentalist abilities, like Psychokinetic Armor, Energy Shield, and the like... so if me thinking about ways to increase his willpower beyond 13 for survival is powergaming, so be it... and I'm also thinking in terms of playing this character for a long long time... 

on a personal note... Psychic Assault + Psychic Illusion is the greatest power combo in the book... I mean what power other than that power can paralyze a person by making it think that the worms and other creepy crawlies are coming out of the ground to swarm around the person, and crawl up his legs and up where the sun don't shine? I mean, imagine a group of soldiers being brought into formation when all of a sudden their commander drops to the ground, rips his pants off and starts digging for wermin while screaming at the top of his lungs "GET THEM OUT!!! GETTHEMOUTGETTHEMOUT!!!" 

 

 

Yes, I think this character is exactly why the rules don't let you go above 13.  I mean come on.  Min/Max-ing is always tempting in a point based system and it is always their weakness. 

Powergaming can mean two things.  First it can mean ignoring the role playing aspects and just using the rules to make the most powerful cahracter you can.  In my group we call thins wanting to "win" which isn't really possible in a role-playing game.  Power gaming can also be just knowing the rules well enought o make the character you want to play.  role-playing all in as it were, but these characters also tend to be powerful.  The first type of power gaming is the only thing that people usually have a problem with.

I am not in your game I haven't seen you play so I can not really say that you are trying to sacerfice the roleplaying aspects of the game to be POWERFUL.  But you are bumping up against the rules that are put there to stop people from doing that.

If I was your GM (I never tell people outright that they can not play a cahracter) i would do my darndest to convince you to play a different character.  I would mention that you character may be great at magic, but he is going to really suck at everything else.  He can not even question NPC's (or interact with in any way) for goodness sake.

You will run into two types of situations, situations where he will totally dominate with his magic, (these actually aren't that fun after a few weeks) and situations where you can not use your magic, and in these you will be totally useless (these really are not any fun to play).

The rest of the group will also have less fun.  The chances that you are going to totally outclass them is really high.  No one likes being made to look like a chump because the other player was willing to heap on the dissads and min/max until there is no tomorrow.

Now if, my friend did agree as still wanted to play that character I would tell them that they can not go above 13, and that that rule is there for a good reason.

However, it is important to point out that maxes on stats are suggestions for GM.  It is likely that characters that would be totally broken in one game might work in another.  And a GM might just let you buy up the stats higher.  However may GM's won't and the character you described is very very broken for most games.

 


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#9 commanderq

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 05:47 PM

Let me just tell you how to min max, since iv already done it in anima.  First off, using stats to min max is going about it the wrong way.  Stats only do so much, and as stated before there are limits planced on stats for a reason.  Also your combo of Psy Assualt and Illusion only works when some one is not immidatly hostile to you unless its just 1 guy and you score high on all your rolls.  if some one, or some group is hostile, your illusion wont affect all of them without Area.

That said, hear is how you min max.  Look back in your CP options and find the Elan option.  Go to the elan section and browse.  you will find that there is a power belonging to a particular Elan being that gives you a single power of your chooice from the creature creation section.  you can bascilly just mod your guys with something stupid powerful at level 1 with that.  I made Zeraki kenpachi from bleach and I think he regenerated like, 20lp a round? idk I had his regenration maxed out though, and it was hilerious.

I just wanted to clarify again, your power combo is not that broken, i had a player in my game make a wizard mentalist, with illusion and telepathy as his two focuses.  Just because you want your illusion to do something, does not nessiarly mean that it will have the exact effect you want it to.  If you want global illusions you need magic.  your powers only work on a 1 to 1 basis without Area.  Thus it is not nearly as powerful as you think it is.



#10 Arcaia

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 04:14 AM

Of course, this is all provided you don't use spells to raise your Gnosis so as to gain access to the Essential Abilities of creature creation, more specifically Supernatural Physical/Spiritual Characteristics.

If your GM is kind enough to make you undergo one of the Ascension spells (from either Light or Dark path), then you can simply break any limit - provided the Godlike caster doesn't dump you by dropping the maintenance.

As for your combo, it is a great combo, but then Psychic Assault is meant to be used in combination with all the other Telepathy powers, especially with Mind Reading, Psychic Illusion, Mind Control and Psychic Death. However, it does fail in one important aspects: any enemy who is mindless cannot be affected by any telepathic powers. However, against any run-of-the-mill enemy who doesn't have quite high PsR, it is an interesting technique. Just remember that it all depends on your GMs mood, and that none of the skills in the game are broken - they always have clauses that prevent them from being overpowering.



#11 Gangstaz

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 08:23 AM

Didn't read everything but to answer the first post:

Creating a level 1 character you can have 10 in any physic or mental ability. With a CP you can raise them above 10 to maximum 11. After that you can raise your abilities every odd level, you will gain +1 reaching level 2, level 4 etc

If you don't have inhumanity, the only benefit you will gain will be the bonus, exemple +20 for a Strenght of 11. If you want to have all benefits for your physical abilities, you need inhumanity. After 13 you will need Zen. For mental abilities, there is nothing required in order to raise them above 10.



#12 Juanzarabozo

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 07:40 AM

 Actually the advantage you buy with CP says that you cannot increase any physical attribute beyond 11 with that advantage, but it does not say you cannot do it with the mental attributes, it´s right there on the description. Usually the GM will set a limit, i don´t remember where it says so, but the general rule is that at level 1 the limit is 13  



#13 Raybras

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 08:02 AM

 Actually, it is written in the advantage te limit for mental characteristics is 13



#14 vaxx01

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 05:44 PM

ok so lets say that your max at level 1 is 11 physical 13 mental as from the increase any characteristic by one advantage, now after that point all physical stats need inhumanity and zen, yet there is nothing for mental.  This means 1 of 3 things:

1 that you can't go beyond 13 ever

2 that you can raise mental characteristics unlimitedly

3 that the GM sets the rules and caps for raising them

so what you should do is sit down with your GM and see what you two can agree on, or as default find out what his ruling is.



#15 Beadle

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 06:41 PM

 I'm pretty sure it IS written somewhere that with Inhuman you can get to 15 on your Mental attributes, and with Zen there's no cap.

Unfortunately I'm not going to have time to check where it is today though.



#16 Raybras

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 11:49 PM

 Normally it would be 2 but most go with 3. My gm goes 15 inhuman and 17 zen while physical he does 13 inhuman and 15 zen






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