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Combo: The White Ship/Find Gate (amazingly broken?)


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#1 Avi_dreader

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Posted 31 December 2008 - 02:49 PM

Am I correct in thinking that if you have both The White Ship and Find Gate you are able to enter and seal/close gates on the same turns?  You can't do it with Find Gate alone, because normally, you aren't sucked into a gate until the Arkham Encounter phase, but the White Ship lets you get into an Other World during movement.  This combo (if it works) also allows you to skip the Other World encounter.

::Laughter:: if this works, and I think it does, I might've finally found a tool for helping trash Atlach Nacha :'r I HATE THAT DAMN SPIDER!

 

The White Ship:

"Movement: If you are in Arkham or an Other World, you may move to the first area of any Other World instead of your normal movement."

Find Gate:

"Movement: Cast and exhaust to immediately return to Arkham from an Other World."

What does instead of your normal movement mean?  Does it mean instead of having a movement phase?  That doesn't seem to be how it's worded.  Anyways...  I think you can use find gate and The White Ship to go in and out of gates for closing or sealing without having any encounters (but I did do it with one encounter per time I used this combo— even though I think you can skip it entirely).

 So...  Have I discovered a good method for Closing victories?  Judges?

 



#2 MrsGamura

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Posted 31 December 2008 - 07:59 PM

I'm going toward "no" due to the replace your movement line there.

Same reason you can't use Tomes at the Wagon.



#3 StarBurn

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Posted 31 December 2008 - 08:11 PM

I'm inclined to say this combo won't work for the same reasons, but casting a spell does not require you to move. So I'm open to suggestions.



#4 StarBurn

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Posted 31 December 2008 - 08:12 PM

errrr....you know what I mean, it doesn't require movement points.



#5 ColtsFan76

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Posted 31 December 2008 - 09:09 PM

This was brought up and discussed on the old forums, I believe.  We never got an official answer and the consensus seemed to be that you couldn't use both on the same movement phase.   But it is something that needs clarification.



#6 The Message

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 02:17 AM

I'd have to say yes, honestly. "Instead of your normal move" implies that you do it instead of 'moving through the use of movement points', not that you skip the entire phase. Since the spell can be cast during the movement phase (without requiring movement points), this should work as written. Of course, an official change to the wording of either card would obviously change things, but currently it looks like an affirmative.



#7 Frank

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 03:37 AM

I'm going to toss my hat in with The Message. You don't lose the Movement phase you lose the Movement points. That being said, getting Captain of the White Ship is non-trivial, so it's difficult for me to see this as a bad thing. You can't transfer it, and the person doing it doesn't get any encounters, so they won't be able to close gates as fast as you might think.

-Frank



#8 Avi_dreader

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 10:27 AM

Frank said:

I'm going to toss my hat in with The Message. You don't lose the Movement phase you lose the Movement points. That being said, getting Captain of the White Ship is non-trivial, so it's difficult for me to see this as a bad thing. You can't transfer it, and the person doing it doesn't get any encounters, so they won't be able to close gates as fast as you might think.

-Frank

I'm inclined to say yes too...  Although I could see why it might be errataed to losing movement phase (as opposed to losing movement points).  You can still close gates pretty fast with that and find gate.  One per turn.  Very helpful for an end game when you've got four or five gates already sealed, but are having trouble getting those last few clues ;')  It's a pretty rare occasion that you could get both though, so I can see them not errataing it.  Sure, it's strong, but so is Daisy or Mandy.



#9 Kobu

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 12:48 PM

The Message said:

I'd have to say yes, honestly. "Instead of your normal move" implies that you do it instead of 'moving through the use of movement points', not that you skip the entire phase. Since the spell can be cast during the movement phase (without requiring movement points), this should work as written. Of course, an official change to the wording of either card would obviously change things, but currently it looks like an affirmative.

I think I agree. It seems to give you a third type of movement action, but doesn't explicitly deny movement points like Other World Movement does. It's still a good candidate for an FAQ entry.



#10 Morgaln

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 01:03 AM

This also works with a Nightgaunt instead of the White Ship, which isn't quite as rare.



#11 Nephilim

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 02:54 AM

Yes it would be a good thing to have an official answer to that.
We actually tried to have this combo in one of our games but we found out it was not so easy to get it.
Although it sure does look "amazingly broken" on paper, in practice it isn't as broken as you would think, so I can imagine that it is a valid thing to do. And if the circumstances are right (or the stars  ) it sure would help things a lot...



#12 Elric91

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 08:29 AM

Avi_dreader said:

 

You can still close gates pretty fast with that and find gate.  One per turn. 

 

 

 

The other balancing factor is the sanity cost of the spell. Find gate costs 1 point of sanity, and unless you have a way to get it back thats going to limit gate closing to available sanity, and not all investigators have tons of sanity for multiple find gate spells.

The only way this would become really broken is with daisy walker, who can get this combo pretty easily. All she has to do is grab find gate on the first turn with that tome of hers, then all she needs to do is bash a few monsters and close one gate, then run up to the location and do a turn in.

Since daisy walkers ability always reduces the sanity cost of a spell by one, she pretty much has unlimited gate closure ability as long as monsters dont get in her way, she can close gates one after another, turn after turn, without stopping.

When this occurs to kevin as well, it is bound to lend its weight to the possibility that he will errata this to "loss of movement phase" .



#13 Kobu

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 07:36 AM

Elric91 said:

Since daisy walkers ability always reduces the sanity cost of a spell by one, she pretty much has unlimited gate closure ability as long as monsters dont get in her way, she can close gates one after another, turn after turn, without stopping.

You haven't thought your cunning plan all the way through.






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