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Wondering About Flamers...


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#1 SpawnoChaos

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 01:02 PM

I'm aware that the rules do not allow you to fire a Flamer or Heavy Flamer while in Close Combat.

 

Out of curiosity, am I the only person that finds this odd? Isn't the whole point of the flamethrower to douse enemies that are relatively close to you with flammable jelly?

So why shouldn't you be able to fire this weapon while they are standing 2 feet in front of you? It's not like you would miss...

 

I know that the rules state that you can't fire a weapon while in Close Combat unless it is a Pistol designation (for this purpose the Hand Flamer would work).

However, what are other "good" reasons that this should / shouldn't be allowed? 



#2 stormyfs

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 02:27 PM

Only thing I can think of is a semi-fluffy explanation of "If the guy you just set on fire is really close to you, he won't think twice about giving you a hug, or grabbing the nice long barrel of your flamer and turning it to face your buddies"

 

Being hugged is probably no concern to Space Marines (but would be for Guardsmen) and I don't think either group would be up for torching their squadmates.



#3 muzzyman1981

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 02:30 PM

Probibly because it would take more of an effort to make the exception or option 2 would be to let you use Basic weapons in hand-to-hand which would defeat the purpose of the bolt pistol.

Plus it would seem to me to actually be easier to dodge the stream of flammable jelly up close than from farther away as the stream would be so much smaller, i.e. less area to dodge than when farther back when the jelly has spread.



#4 Charmander

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 05:12 PM

I think the general idea with non-pistol weapons in close combat is simply that in close combat you're assumed to be arms length from the other guy, and busy attacking, counter attacking, sizing them up, etc.  To aim a rifle at someone in hand to hand would be both difficult (to get a bead on him without having him knock your gun out of the way or move), and foolhardy (opponent could probably stab you AS they were knocking the gun away).  It's the same basic reason you don't see soldiers armed with rifles shooting people in close combat, you see them using their rifle as a hand to hand weapon.

Why would this be different from a rifle sized flamer?  You're still trying to aim a long weapon at your opponent, he's still going to stab the crap out of you while you're trying to douse him with fire, or even take the rifle away from you (or with the right weapon, cut it in half).  Firing at this range you'd probably run the risk of hitting everyone BUT the guy right next to you.  If you want to use a flamer in close combat, that is what the hand flamer is for.

As for the heavy flamer- it's larger than the regular flamer, so it should be even harder to aim at someone in close combat.



#5 KommissarK

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 05:59 AM

I would say another reason is you really don't want that stuff splashing off the guy in front of you, and getting it all over yourself.



#6 SpawnoChaos

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 07:56 AM

 Alright, sounds good to me.

The question came up last session, and I told them "no" until I could come up with a reason.

It's also a hold-over from the TT version where a Flamers class was Assualt, meaning you could move and shoot a flamer in the same round, distance be damned. 



#7 KommissarK

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 06:40 PM

But do remember even "assault" weapons are useless in melee in TT.



#8 SpawnoChaos

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 08:26 AM

KommissarK said:

 

But do remember even "assault" weapons are useless in melee in TT.

 

 

Unless you are an Ork and use a Burna in melee and didn't fire it in the shooting round. Then it counts as a power weapon. 



#9 Brother-Sergeant Cloten

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 04:28 PM

 My own personal house rule for this (and all weapons which can't be used in melee) is as follows (because my group would just keep saying "I know you can't, but what happens if I do?")

 

You may fire any weapon while in melee combat, but if the weapon is not a weapon which can safely be used in melee combat (so far, just Pistols), you suffer the following penalties:

-20% for shooting into melee (as you have to be careful that your opponent doesn't just grab the weapon and twist it into your gut). If you miss by less than one degree of success, you hit yourself (and obviously, your opponent has just done what I suggested). Remember the bonus for shooting at point blank range, though. Basically, you don't get a huge bonus for shooting into melee.

Your opponent gets a free attack on you, just as if you had moved away from melee without disengaging. This is simultaneous with your firing of the weapon, as you cannot kill your opponent before this attack is made, nor can he stop you from shooting.

Your weapon automatically jams after firing, as your opponent will have done anything possible to avoid being hit by it.

 

I know that's not totally realistic. However, it is a bit more realistic than just saying, "No matter what, you CANNOT pull the trigger on that Heavy Bolter, because the Hive Tyrant is right up in your face. You just can't bring yourself to violate proper fire discipline."

It also allows the player to make that decision, when there really isn't a better alternative (or when doing so would really be dramaticallly (or tactically appropriate). If you are definitely going to die anyway, or if you have a weapon with only one shot (or burst) left, then it might just make sense to go for it. Finally, it also prevents that annoying situation so common to flamers and other short ranged weapons, where you only get ONE shot, but if you forget to hold an action, you can't even shoot the tyranids at all, because one turn they are over 20 meters away, and the next turn, they are in melee combat. Go ahead and blast it full throttle on them as they swarm you! For the Emperor!!!

 

 



#10 Nimon

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 08:30 PM

 

                                              A big part of that rule is giving the melee a chance, but and I preach this to no end THE BOOK IS A GUIDLINE YOU MAKE THE RULES. Just stay consitant with your ruleings and have fun.






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