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Blackmailing a space marine


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#1 jareddm

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 01:19 PM

Hi everyone!  I don't have the DW rules yet so I'm going off of what I've gathered from all the threads on this board.

I'm trying to add the opportunity for as many unusual and morally questionable missions to Deathwatch in order to make it more than a run and gun tactical game.  My idea was to have the team's Watch Captain being blackmailed by an outside agent.  Now I know this seems highly improbable and anyone dumb enough to attempt it would immediately be smashed to pieces by an inquisitorial hammer and a half dozen deathwatch teams.  But what if it were someone outside of Imperial space, and thus outside of normal jurisdiction, say a rogue trader operating in the Koronus Expanse?  And the information he acquired was particularly damning not just for the Watch Captain, but all of the teams that work underneath him?  What kind of information could this be?

Perhaps the rogue trader not only discovered the identity of one of the Black Shields, but also that the Shield is corrupted physically, spreading his taint slowly to any unprotected individuals near him?  The Watch Captain knows this but felt that since the taint is too weak to harm a properly blessed space marine, the only risk came to the humans that directly interacted with the Black Shield.  And what's a few mutated humans compared to the continued protection of an entire world?  Nay, a sub-sector even!

In exchange, the Rogue Trader has demanded the use of the PC's team for his own use in some rather questionable situations, though I'm still working out what those may be.

So what do you think?  Does this even sound possible?  What other information might be used to blackmail a space marine?  What kind of ethics-provoking missions might the PC's be forced to undertake?



#2 FatPob

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 09:30 PM

As far as the Kill Team is concerned they follow the mission parameters as given.  Asking them to follow orders from a RT may be pushing the boundaries some what.

The question you need to ask of your story you are putting together is "What is the final aim/consequences of the plot?"

If you want the KT to discover the plot, you need to decide the how's and wherefores.  I would imagine the KT recovering an artefact and being  told to hand over the RT will ring some alarm bells, however returning it to the WC and him giving it to the RT is a completely different outset.

The way the mission is couched and the end result is where you need to concentrate on, especially if your plan is to have this story running for some time.

Perhaps you set the KT up with the mission with the RT, He is the best transport available for this particular mission,  They return the Artefact to the Watch Captain.  They then proceed on to several normal missions.

Perhaps then they are sent on a mssion to the same world by another Watch Captain.  A Tertiary objective mentions some Artefact may be recoverable.

They realise its the one the retrieved, and now they have an issue.  Maybe then they either expose the WC, or perhaps they hunt down the RT, who by this point has traded the artefact with some Xenos.  There is a lot of opportunity as long as you don't give away your hand too early.



#3 Dalnor Surloc

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 07:17 AM

I think that even for an RT blackmailing the Death Watch is not really possible in the way you suggest.  Even the Inquisition steps lightly around the Space Marines.  The DW exists not because the Ordo Xenos demanded it, but because they asked NICELY, and it fit in with the Chapter's beliefs and goals.  Which is not to say that there are ways have a Squad take orders from a RT.

 

1)The RT was charged (maybe as part of his/her warrant) with the destruction of a Xenos race which is either had to find or tricky to fight in some way.  The PCs were seconded to him to assist in his mission.

2)Maybe he assisted the DW in some way, and now the DW is honor bound to provide a squad to him.

3)He has vital information which he/she will reveal once the PCs finish a certain task.



#4 evilamericorp

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 09:35 AM

Dalnor Surloc said:

1)The RT was charged (maybe as part of his/her warrant) with the destruction of a Xenos race which is either had to find or tricky to fight in some way.  The PCs were seconded to him to assist in his mission.

The Fuzzy Cave Newts of Paradisetopia have become too great a xenos threat to ignore. You there, Space Marine... go squish them.



#5 Charmander

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 10:57 AM

I'd agree most KTs would be suspicious of a RT ordering them around, if the RT with the blackmail material was careful the missions could all be veild in secrecy, and the watch captain/commander be the one to issue the orders though, avoiding that whole thing.  Watch commander says jumps, most marines ask how high.

I don't see why an RT couldn't blackmail a watch commander, but he/she had best have VERY good intel, and a very safe place to keep it- for example, if the trader demanded the KT serve as his bodyguard on some mission, what's to stop the watch commander from turning the tables and telling the marines that the trader is a heritic with intent to sell critical information to the Empire's enemies- their new mission is to 'guard' him until they're in deep space, then kill him and his crew.  Hell, why even wait until they're in deep space- tell them as soon as they're on the bridge with him, kill him and his associates, then claim the ship as property of the Deathwatch.  A watch commander, especially one painted into a corner, could be a very dangerous enemy to have.

Think about how the RT came across the info, what their goals are by manipulating the group, maybe it's to get richer, maybe they want to help the Empire by overthrowing the commander.  I'd look into some of Pob's suggestions- what is the final goal here? 

 



#6 Dige

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 08:05 PM

One other solution would be that the Watch Captain would be honour-bond to the RT, and the RT is using this honour-bond for his advantage. But the shame in which the honour-bond was made is too great for the Watch Captain to tell others about it?

This is like: After seeing all his kill-teammates killed by the daemon prince, the would-be-Captain picked gave into his rage and picked up a daemon sword (setting another corruption subplot for him) to combat the prince, as he knew that he was going to die anyway. But just as the Daemon prince had beaten the would-be-Captain,  the RT arrived on the scene, blasting the Prince with orbital bombartment and saving the would-be-Captain (who sweared a honour-bond to the RT), who was elected as a proper captain because of this incident.

Or the thing the RT would be blackmaling him would be some secret of Captains Chapter, or something really bad akin to that, what would totally ruin their chapter in the eyes of the Imperium (like telling the Imperium about the Fallen, if the Captain is an Dark Angel).

In other words, I would emphasis on the honour of the Captain to work with the RT, or the overwhelming shame what would fall on him if he didn't wokr for the RT.

Alos, the RT must be really clever to pull this off.  So I doubt killing the RT should work. Probably he should have foreseen this possibility, and the secret he is blackmailing the Captain is locked in some bank couple sectors away, with the instructions to open it and reveal it to public if the RT dies.



#7 Decessor

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 11:00 AM

If the RT knows about the Dark Angel's secret (which would be tricky in the extreme), they should also realise how closely and violently the DA guards said secret. And I could see the DA having enough of an intelligence network/web of contacts to figure out the RT's holdings and allies. It could be done, but that RT had better be ready to run if even a hint gets back to the Rock.



#8 LeBlanc13

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 02:55 AM

"Hey there Watch Captain Kruntch! I've got some info on you that could be very damning if it came to light....."

[Watch captain spans distance in a fraction of a second and thrusts his hand out latching onto the neck of the black mailer]

....snap...

Problem solved!

Blackmailers should only blackmail a space marine from a distance.... a long, long distance.

If this scenario occurred, I'd be inclined to think a deathwatch battle barge might be on it's way to the planet the blackmailer is from and a Deathwatch team was about to visit some heretics.



#9 rodeoclownjihad

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 10:17 AM

Personally i think that if this is the route you want to take in your 40k rpg... you have the wrong game... A break from the tactical bolter blasting, chainsword ripping, powerfist crushing combat? You sure you're a space marine?!

While I agree that you want a good deal of plot in your game... you need to look at the game... A plot twist of this nature would be more welcomed in a game such as Dark heresy or Rogue trader where you aren't roleplaying something near as epic and important or powerful as a Deathwatch space marine.

One thing you could do is send your killteam on a misstion w/o all of the details giving the players plenty of surprises as they uncover the details as to why they were sent.

Personally... Space Marines are cool... VERY cool... so they attract many people with their own tastes and preferences. But lets be realistic. This is 40k... Not some game like D&D where you start off a nobody and work your way up to the top and earn the thanks of those around you and earn personal enemies and the respect of kings. You don't find treasure and you are almost never involved in the squabbling of politicians or diplomats.

In Deathwatch... you are a space marine... Sworn to protect the imperium of man on all fronts until your dying breath. Who can blackmail you... Who would have the balls... what reason would you even have to deal with such people unless they were already in your sights? There are non more respected or feared throughout the galaxy. And in the Deathwatch... Who might I ask... has clearance to such information regarding these individuals for blackmailng?



#10 Ariolan

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 07:57 AM

Any human person within a strict social system could be blackmailed. It's the humanity of it. So, yes, you are that space marine and do all the cool stuff. For years and years. Then, when you are kinda ready to die for the sheer hopelessness of it all, you meet this girl. It's not supposed to happen, but it does. You father a child, far away from your chapter. You know that you cannot be a family man, ever. So you meet this guy that you know from missions long gone, and he sets you up with a rogue trader. He agrees to take good care of the girl and your boy, they leave on a long long voyage. Instead of returning to your chapter, you paint your armour black and go to the Jericho Reaches, joining the Death Watch. Years pass by. You fight with zeal, yet somehow, you arent't killed. Maybe you secretly hope to see them back ? You are promoted for your heroic efforts.

Then, you get despatched with a small team to a remote Fortress. You are leading the men. A couple of missions follow, when all of a sudden, you find, on your return, a small note stating "they are still alive".

A couple of months later, you find another note "Go to Hollucis-5 and tell Mr. Samson to leave the system and never come back".

You realize that you are damned anyway and your past has found you.....

it goes only downward from then on....

 

 

There you have your blackmailing Rogue Trader. Of course the message would be kinda hard to deliver to the Watch Station, how does he know hoe to find the Black Shield etc, but I bet you this is as good of a background story as any in roleplaying games and most novels, so don't focus on the holes but enjoy this full-fleshed, tragic and believable "enemy within" that has just be been born...

 

Ariolan



#11 rodeoclownjihad

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 04:30 AM

 You need to learn more about space marines. Space Marines spend ALL of their time either in battle, on a mission, training,  or with their chapters.

There would be no way a space marine would have a boy meets girl situation. They are 100% dedicated to duty and they're entire lives are devoted to battle. They would never get off task to have such a relation. Also, I highly doubt they are even capable of having children. 

I respect your creativity but this is another example of adding elements that dont belong in this particular setting. Again this would be better off in RG or DH.

The reality is. Space marines do NOTHING but train and fight.  They dont deal with anyone that doesnt have some importance to this existence. They are warrior monks, and holy knights at the same time. 

No one would have the information needed to blackmail a space marine unless they were high up in the inquisition or maybe imperial guard...maybe. Also, why would they even want to IF they werent terrified to do so? Space marines are just warriors if you could blackmail a space marine you wouldnt gain anything at all. IF you were successful he would just be branded as a heretic or something and killed. Then another would take his place... what was gained? a personal vendetta? If the space marine did something to make you that mad, how do you even know his identity, or possibly how did you survive the encounter? And if it was the commander that was pissed and wanted to do away with the marine... why wouldnt he have the common sense to just send him and his team on a suicide mission?

Again I'm not saying that someone doesnt have the right to do something like this in their campaign. All Im saying is that for someone who is a hardcore fan of the 40k universe (especially space marines) this is heresy lol. Im the only one. I talked to my 40k group about this and they all laughed pretty hard. This situation adds for really good roleplaying situations but doing so says that you couldnt care less about the way the 40k universe actually works.

 



#12 rodeoclownjihad

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 04:37 AM

Ariolan said:

Any human person within a strict social system could be blackmailed. It's the humanity of it. So, yes, you are that space marine and do all the cool stuff. For years and years. Then, when you are kinda ready to die for the sheer hopelessness of it all, you meet this girl. It's not supposed to happen, but it does. You father a child, far away from your chapter. You know that you cannot be a family man, ever. So you meet this guy that you know from missions long gone, and he sets you up with a rogue trader. He agrees to take good care of the girl and your boy, they leave on a long long voyage. Instead of returning to your chapter, you paint your armour black and go to the Jericho Reaches, joining the Death Watch. Years pass by. You fight with zeal, yet somehow, you arent't killed. Maybe you secretly hope to see them back ? You are promoted for your heroic efforts.

Then, you get despatched with a small team to a remote Fortress. You are leading the men. A couple of missions follow, when all of a sudden, you find, on your return, a small note stating "they are still alive".

A couple of months later, you find another note "Go to Hollucis-5 and tell Mr. Samson to leave the system and never come back".

You realize that you are damned anyway and your past has found you.....

it goes only downward from then on....

 

 

There you have your blackmailing Rogue Trader. Of course the message would be kinda hard to deliver to the Watch Station, how does he know hoe to find the Black Shield etc, but I bet you this is as good of a background story as any in roleplaying games and most novels, so don't focus on the holes but enjoy this full-fleshed, tragic and believable "enemy within" that has just be been born...

 

Ariolan

TBH I didnt read of all of this before my last post.... There are WAY too many things wrong with this... Not returning to your chapter and just painting your armor black and going to the jericho reach and joining deathwatch? No no no no no..... Play your game the way you want to really. but dont try to come across as this is completely possible in the "actual" 40k universe. Im not even going to go into why this is wrong as there are way too many things to cover. Would anyone else like to?



#13 jareddm

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 02:02 PM

Thank you to everyone who responded.  I appreciate your input and would like to clear a few things up.

Roboclown. I can see you are a staunch and loyal space marine purist, and I can respect that.  But despite what the tabletop may say, I find it hard to believe that every waking and sleeping moment is spent in battle or training.  I don't deny that it is an extremely large percentage, but from a roleplaying standpoint, it is that 1% of time spent in awkward situations with humans after defending a planet that can be the most memorable and character building.  I know full well that if a Rogue Trader just came out and said, "I have dirt on you!  Do what I say!"  He'd be crushed.  But by remaining hidden, working through messengers and coded notes, he could manipulate a space marine.  Additionally, the point of blackmail is NOT to reveal the information to the public, it's to force the individual to act for you.  Not because you care if the information gets out, but because they do.

Ariolan, I appreciate the idea and find the idea of a space marine child interesting.  But for the purpose of my game, Roboclown is correct.  A space marine would not be able to fall in love or father a child.  To join the Deathwatch is more akin to being picked for the Navy SEALS or SAS, whereas you seem to be interpreting it as joining the French Foreign Legion.  What I do like is the idea that a sibling or a family member from BEFORE the space marine had gone through his augmentation may have fallen to chaos or been marked for some form of heresy, possibly putting into question the space marine's loyalty.  This would make for a compelling piece of blackmail against the marine.  Now I know people will say that a space marine wouldn't care about a former family member due to psycho-indoctrination and memory erasing and whatnot, but not all chapters practice this.  From what I understand, the Salamanders keep very close ties with their non-space marine families and clans.

Dige, I really like that idea alot.  That a Rogue Trader may have witnessed a marine use forbidden methods in times of desperation.  This was what I was originally thinking.  I'm trying to avoid using major, well-known secrets like the Fallen, only because it's pretty difficult to not make them obvious to experienced 40k players.



#14 rodeoclownjihad

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 04:02 PM

 In all honesty GL with your game : )

You are absolutely correct I am a space marine purist. But not exclusively space marines but 40k in general. I understand your need to squeeze more out of the game for RP purposes but this at not fault to you maybe a mis-judgement on FFGs part that hardcore RPers could really enjoy RPing space marines. I know you dont want to believe it but yes they do spend all of their time fighting or training (they were created for this). There maybe an awkward moment with non space marines or non military. But not long enough to do anything with. To black mail someone youd have to have something on them, Space marines do no political wrong. NO ONE f**ks with them.  A space marine also basically has no privacy. He is a monk in the sense that he has devoted his ENTIRE life to service in the emperor and does NOTHING other than that. He take orders, gladly and dutifully executes them, and prepares until the next set of orders arrives. IF a space marine did anything to warrant black mail... for it to even be relevant enough to ANYTHING.... 1) it wouldnt be a secret at all to anyone the space marine is affiliated with. 2) He would most likely be accused of heresy and destroyed right then and there and possibly by his own team.

Space marines as a theme is very very limited and virtually only the most hardcore of fans could enjoy it because of this. They are designed for a specific purpose and nothing more...

But seriously play the way you want. thats why you bought it. I will NEVER knock someone for that. BUT.. if you want to know how it would ACTUALLY play out in 40k im telling you hehe.

Im considering taking my game down the same route. My game has the KT going to defend a Librarium from waves of tyranids because the storm wardens have been getting worn out trying to do so. Once their mission is done their evac will get shot down and they will uncover a plot by a daemon prince which will possibly end up in accusations (w/o the KT knowing of course) that they have been corrupted by the prince and they should be burned as well. This campaign will inevitably result in the KTs deaths as they maybe clear their names as their last act of devotion to the emperor. But hey... all games end... but the journey is what you're playing for. 

One thing you gotta keep in mind... this is the grim darkness of the 41st millenium..... Not the flowery politically correct world we live in today.



#15 FatPob

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 09:10 PM

A couple of things of note really.

Astartes are monks dedicated to fighting which is true, and the film/comic 300 is a decent reference for how they live, Spartan. However not all chapters are alike, and some maybe more congenial then others.

eg Space Wolves spend a lot of time drinking and doing vikingy type things, so perhaps a child from these types may be applicable.

If you progress down this road of Blackmail, then the most obvious candidate would be a Blackshield.  Very little is known of them individually, and perhaps the RT transported this man and his former chapter somewhere.  He may later heard they were wiped out by a daemon/xenos etc, but seeing this Blackshield again may give cause for the RT to investigate, and therefore get some blackmail material.

Politics. the Astartes don't really go for politics in the main, however this does not mean they are not political.  The very nature of war is political on many aspects, and though they can be impassive, they still have their own desires for chapter/cause, and as such may get embroiled in political shennigans to get what they need from other organisations of the imperium.

 



#16 rodeoclownjihad

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 03:59 AM

FatPob said:

A couple of things of note really.

Astartes are monks dedicated to fighting which is true, and the film/comic 300 is a decent reference for how they live, Spartan. However not all chapters are alike, and some maybe more congenial then others.

eg Space Wolves spend a lot of time drinking and doing vikingy type things, so perhaps a child from these types may be applicable.

If you progress down this road of Blackmail, then the most obvious candidate would be a Blackshield.  Very little is known of them individually, and perhaps the RT transported this man and his former chapter somewhere.  He may later heard they were wiped out by a daemon/xenos etc, but seeing this Blackshield again may give cause for the RT to investigate, and therefore get some blackmail material.

Politics. the Astartes don't really go for politics in the main, however this does not mean they are not political.  The very nature of war is political on many aspects, and though they can be impassive, they still have their own desires for chapter/cause, and as such may get embroiled in political shennigans to get what they need from other organisations of the imperium.

 

Do the space wolves incorporate women into their traditions? I don't know a great deal about them as a chapter.

As for the political aspect of space marine life in the sense you are speaking in, That would only be reserved for chapter masters and maybe chaplains librarians or captains. I don't think a deathwatch space marine would have such liberties as he's a veteran sgt. at best.

What are the Blackshields? Ive honestly never heard of them.



#17 ebolazaire

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 04:05 AM

p.319 of the corebook details the Blackshields.

They are essentially Marines that for some reason or another no longer has a chapter, and opt to join the Deathwatch for life.

The book gives a few examples like being the last marine alive of the chapter, turning from your chapter [chaos cult] or whatever, if I remember correctly they give an example that hints very heavily that the marine is one of the Fallen that repented.



#18 Eon Chao

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 04:56 AM

The most important thing to remember is that Space Marines, less so than being armoured super soldiers of death, are a brotherhood. Admitidly its different with the Deathwatch being drawn from multiple chapters but with many chapters its likely that most Space Marines would confess and accept penance for their actions. If its a threat of blackmail against the chapter itself (for example the Fallen with the Dark Angels) then the space marine would be honor bound to report it to his brothers and they would investigate and pursue the matter. If its partically bad (ie. the space marine is corrupt) then the Rogue Trader has to have some serious balls because anything a Space Marine wouldn't tell his squad mates would have to be bad enough that he'd be quite happy to track down the Rogue Trader and kill him as a heretic.

As to the children thing it just wouldn't happen. Space Marines are like the ultimate brotherhood of warrior monks. They can grow to respect and care about humans they fight alongside but it is more of a parent and child relationship in the marines who like humans and an annoyance in those who don't. Fact is they just aren't Astartes.



#19 Ariolan

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 06:36 AM

rodeoclownjihad said:

What are the Blackshields? Ive honestly never heard of them.

This exactly what I was alluding to in an earlier post. Blackshields are Deathwatch Marines that have chosen to wipe all external signs of their previous chapter affiliation, and they mysteriously appear in front of the Watch Fortress. They will become Deathwatch Marines for life, in exchange for which they are not asked why and how. I believe it to be a FFG addition to the setting.

In that very sense, joining the Deathwatch is like joining the French Foreign Legion - or the Templars. All is forgiven, if only you fight for us.

-

As an aside. Of course the Space Marines are all we wish to be. Righteous, clear goals, nothing complicated but just fight for the emperor. Not bribed, bought, scared of or turned. Unsullied.

However.

There is this tiny tiny black spot in their history. The heresy. Whole chapters turned to Chaos - In the Chapters, even some infighting occurred. The Dark Angels still, thousands of years after this, are on a fools errand to find all the heretics. Some Space Marines even run away from their perfect lot to become corsairs.

Unfortunately, even the Space Marines can not entirely be relied on - in the space of thousands of years, some of them listen to the ruinous powers, others rebel against the empire, whole chapters becoming renegade.

Is it really that difficult to imagine that, given the right circumstance, something like an illicit child mike ensue and shame the Marine into becoming a Black Shield to atone, and then be blackmailed with that child ?

Some have suggested this train of thought as wrong, maybe even offensive. I realize the value of concepts brought forward in the long tradition of Games Workshop products, and I am certainly aware of how attached some of us become to certain notions of heroism.

Still, for the purpose of this roleplaying game, and the question of the original poster, I don't think the idea of the blackmailed marine borders on content that require it to be renounced on grounds that it doesn't fit the IP - That IP has been bent and molded to suit any current market trend for the past thirty years, and I think can stand bending a little more by me without breaking.

 

happy gaming

Ariolan

 



#20 Eon Chao

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 11:45 AM

Ariolan said:

rodeoclownjihad said:

 

What are the Blackshields? Ive honestly never heard of them.

 

This exactly what I was alluding to in an earlier post. Blackshields are Deathwatch Marines that have chosen to wipe all external signs of their previous chapter affiliation, and they mysteriously appear in front of the Watch Fortress. They will become Deathwatch Marines for life, in exchange for which they are not asked why and how. I believe it to be a FFG addition to the setting.

In that very sense, joining the Deathwatch is like joining the French Foreign Legion - or the Templars. All is forgiven, if only you fight for us.

-

As an aside. Of course the Space Marines are all we wish to be. Righteous, clear goals, nothing complicated but just fight for the emperor. Not bribed, bought, scared of or turned. Unsullied.

However.

There is this tiny tiny black spot in their history. The heresy. Whole chapters turned to Chaos - In the Chapters, even some infighting occurred. The Dark Angels still, thousands of years after this, are on a fools errand to find all the heretics. Some Space Marines even run away from their perfect lot to become corsairs.

Unfortunately, even the Space Marines can not entirely be relied on - in the space of thousands of years, some of them listen to the ruinous powers, others rebel against the empire, whole chapters becoming renegade.

Is it really that difficult to imagine that, given the right circumstance, something like an illicit child mike ensue and shame the Marine into becoming a Black Shield to atone, and then be blackmailed with that child ?

Some have suggested this train of thought as wrong, maybe even offensive. I realize the value of concepts brought forward in the long tradition of Games Workshop products, and I am certainly aware of how attached some of us become to certain notions of heroism.

Still, for the purpose of this roleplaying game, and the question of the original poster, I don't think the idea of the blackmailed marine borders on content that require it to be renounced on grounds that it doesn't fit the IP - That IP has been bent and molded to suit any current market trend for the past thirty years, and I think can stand bending a little more by me without breaking.

 

happy gaming

Ariolan

 

See Black Shields sit abit less than well with me but are understandable. There are examples throughout the fluff of space marines losing sacred relics (Bloodquest), causing the death of superior officers (Rynn's World) and turning traitor then redeeming themselves (Babab Crusade). In all of these a punishment is handed out be it a crusade of penance or being mind wiped and turned into a servitor. Thusly it is reasonable for a Space Marine who believes he has gravely damaged his chapters honor and feels that his punishment is not enough and so removes himself from his chapter to devote himself to the Deathwatch as a blackshield. They may be the last of an ill fated chapter, a marine who survived a battle none of his brothers did or a member of a group which turned to chaos where he stepped back before it was too late. It is even conciveable for there to be Chaos Marines who haven't gone too far and wish to repent (Alpha Legion would likely be a possible source of these). But the point is that if there is something worth leaving all their past behind the Blackshield would quite likely go to great lengths to keep it covered up, playing along until he can break the blackmailers neck. Also its worth bearing in mind that most Space Marines would more than likely admit, if not what they did, that someone is trying to blackmail them.

Also the Heresy is a completely different issue. Its less a bunch of Space Marines leading a coup and more to do with the Primarchs. As far as has been revealed in the Horus Heresy books it was far from black and white. Spoilers ahead.

Lion El'Jonson is still a grey area as to what happens with his chapter (its looking likely Luthor is the one to turn to Chaos but the Lion is still being a bit of a jerk), Fulgrim was tricked and possessed by a demon through his vanity, Night Haunter was feeling alienated from the Emperor, Angron never truely forgave the Emperor and was already turning his sons into berzerkers before the heresy started, Mortarion didn't know about the Chaos side of things and believed Horus would lead to a greater destiny for humanity, Magnus was forced to switch sides by the Emperor casting him out despite trying to prevent the whole thing, Horus himself was manipulated towards this course of action for man years, Lorgar was feeling betrayed although its looking like there's more to his story than we yet know (First Heretic isn't out yet) and Alpharius is working a big picture thing for the betterment of the Galaxy. For the Space Marines themselves it was more a case of choosing between their distant grandfather and their father who was their with them. Even then there were those who remained loyal (Galaxy in Flames, Flight of the Eisenstein, Fulgrim and Battle for the Abyss feature loyalist remnants of the traitor legions).

So yes whilst it is possible for a Space Marine to go traitor it doesn't mean that other things are likely to happen. In particular an illicit child is just inconciveable. For one thing the logic of Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex comes into play and for another these are beings who are so modified on a genetic level that it is near impossible to imagine. The main issue with the whole illicit child deal is it just can't physically occur. Space Marines are recruited to young to have concieved (if I remember my fluff correctly its something to do with puberty greatly aiding the addition of the geneseed and they're recruited long before thats implanted) and Space Marines are just that incompatable with ordinary humans. And this is ignoring the fact that for most ordinary humans to even see a Space Marine is unlikely and even generally when they do it is either because they are going to become a Space Marine or because things are about to hit the fan. When a Space Marine unit arrives in a civillian area it is usually more likely to be considered a religious event than anything else. In Rynn's World the Governess of the planet is attracted to the Crimson Fist chapter master but understands that there can never be anything there. They are that removed from humanity that the only time they see them is when they are engaged in deadly combat.






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