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#1 PlasmaBomb

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 05:52 AM

Where is the information regarding Holy damage and daemons?

 

Thanks :)

 

Nevermind... I think I have found it on page 130. Any additional info?



#2 KommissarK

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 06:06 AM

As per daemonic trait on p 130, holy damage vs. a daemon ignores the TB bonus that daemonic gives.

One example here, the daemon prince listed on p 362 has both daemonic, and unnat toughness, and a printed TB 12 (base of 4). This is en example of stacking multipliers. The holy damage would lower its multiplier by one, but would not ignore its unnat toughness, for a total TB of 8.



#3 PlasmaBomb

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 06:19 AM

KommissarK said:

 

As per daemonic trait on p 130, holy damage vs. a daemon ignores the TB bonus that daemonic gives.

One example here, the daemon prince listed on p 362 has both daemonic, and unnat toughness, and a printed TB 12 (base of 4). This is en example of stacking multipliers. The holy damage would lower its multiplier by one, but would not ignore its unnat toughness, for a total TB of 8.

 

 

 

Are you sure that Unnatural Toughness and Daemonic (TB 4) gives a total of TB (4 x 3) 12 rather than ((4 x 2) x2) 16? I think I have seen that mentioned in other threads (and the creatures anthema?)

 

And surely the daemon on p 362 should be Daemonic (2) since the rule states that you multiply the value by the number in parentheses after the trait...



#4 KommissarK

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 06:25 AM

The daemon prince has both unnat toughness (x2), and daemonic (lets assume 1, since no value is printed).

Daemonic (1) gives what is effectively unnat toughness x2. If a creature is gaining the benefit of an unnat trait twice, then it doesnt keep multiplying, but rather what it is multiplied by increases.

So having two diff sources of unnat toughness x2 = unnat toughness x3. Which would be effective tb 12, as seen with the daemon prince.

Read the second paragraph of unnat characteristic on p 136.

Consider the power fist, it only multiplies the strength by 3, as this is the interaction of unnatural traits.

Back to the example: holy negates daemonic for the purposes of damage, so the daemon prince only has unnat toughness x2, and therefore overall TB of 8. Hope ya have felling(1).



#5 Cifer

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 06:37 AM

 Are you sure that Unnatural Toughness and Daemonic (TB 4) gives a total of TB (4 x 3) 12 rather than ((4 x 2) x2) 16? I think I have seen that mentioned in other threads (and the creatures anthema?)

It seems like this has changed from DH to DW. You are correct in remembering the Rakshathingy which combined Unnatural Toughness, Daemonic and a downright scary basic toughness for IIRC somewhere around 20 basic damage absorption.

It was also speculated upon whether the power fist doubled damage outright instead of just adding one multiplier, which has been cleared up by Deathwatch now.



#6 PlasmaBomb

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 06:39 AM

Ah so it has changed... I see that the Daemon Prince has TB 12 rather than 16... should have looked more closely...



#7 Brother Praetus

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 10:57 AM

The Rakshasha thingy is, as far as I have found, the only dæmon which has this particularly nasty surprise where its TB is concerned.  The other dæmonic entities with both UT and Dæmonic are additive multipliers, not multiplicative.  If that makes sense...

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#8 Cifer

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 11:04 AM

 The Rakshasha thingy is, as far as I have found, the only dæmon which has this particularly nasty surprise where its TB is concerned. The other dæmonic entities with both UT and Dæmonic are additive multipliers, not multiplicative. If that makes sense...

I don't think there ever were any other creatures with both Daemonic and UT other than the Rakshathingy. Do you have any examples?



#9 Brother Praetus

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 12:53 PM

Cifer said:

 The Rakshasha thingy is, as far as I have found, the only dæmon which has this particularly nasty surprise where its TB is concerned. The other dæmonic entities with both UT and Dæmonic are additive multipliers, not multiplicative. If that makes sense...

I don't think there ever were any other creatures with both Daemonic and UT other than the Rakshathingy. Do you have any examples?

 

Aside from the Dæmon Prince stats in the Deathwatch core (TB 12 with Dæmonic and UT*2), the only other example is Marabas in Ascension (TB of 21 with both Dæmonic and UT*2), can't seem to find any others right now.  If I recall, there was some discussion about the Raksasha back in the day on the DH forums somewhere.  I think the official ruling was it was an exception to the normal calculations; though I don't remember for sure.

-=Brother Praetus=-


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#10 Cifer

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 01:58 AM

 Marabas hasn't got Unnatural Toughness - I've looked him up since as the most powerful daemon statted outside DW, he seemed the most probable candidate. He's got a special version of Daemonic that triples his TB instead of doubling it.



#11 Brother Praetus

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 08:27 AM

Cifer said:

 Marabas hasn't got Unnatural Toughness - I've looked him up since as the most powerful daemon statted outside DW, he seemed the most probable candidate. He's got a special version of Daemonic that triples his TB instead of doubling it.

 

Gah!  Curses trying to read with a sleep deprived mind, mistook the Unnatural Intelligence there.  Oh well, at least I had a blast at the Con which caused my addled-mind state.

-=Brother Praetus=-


"Truth is so rare it must be protected by a bodyguard of lies."

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