Jump to content



Photo

Down side to Devastators?


  • Please log in to reply
46 replies to this topic

#1 Rawrz

Rawrz

    Member

  • Members
  • 25 posts

Posted 01 October 2010 - 09:55 PM

Ok, so I got a player who's a Devastator, maybe it's not leaping out at me by reading the rulebook, but what really is the draw back for being a devastator?  A heavy weapon that takes just one full action to brace?  Oh noes.    I'd like to get some type of challenge to the group, but with a devastator, hordes and most enemies don't stand a chance under one round of fire.  

Is there a weakness to Devastators?  If you could think of an encounter that puts the heavy weapon marines thru, what would it be like? 

 

 



#2 Santiago

Santiago

    Veteran

  • Members
  • 1,504 posts

Posted 01 October 2010 - 10:18 PM

 Actually with bulging biceps he doesn't needs to brace, all marines have that talent.
The weakness of heavy weapons I would say...limit them CQB, to unwieldy....on board a spaceship...



#3 HappyDaze

HappyDaze

    Member

  • Members
  • 4,827 posts

Posted 02 October 2010 - 02:12 AM

I like the Devastator, but there are some limits.  Defensively speaking, the slow advancement rate of both Weapon Skill and Agility means that they can't Parry or Dodge as well as many other types of Marines.  They also don't really get too many Talents that a Tactical Marine can't match, and since the basic Bolter is so damn good, the Devastator doesn't really pull as far ahead in ranged combat as you might initially think.  Still, once his Renown goes up a bit and his heavy bolter is fitted with a Deathwatch Suspensor, watch out!


Ignore, Ignore, you must learn Ignore!

 

Now Ignoring: Nobody!


#4 Nuada_Obliage

Nuada_Obliage

    Member

  • Members
  • 78 posts

Posted 02 October 2010 - 04:41 AM

I was wondering can the heavy bolter be fired in anything other then full auto or suppression? I mean it has no rating for single and semi auto fire?



#5 Little Dave

Little Dave

    Member

  • Members
  • 103 posts

Posted 02 October 2010 - 05:06 AM

Nope just full auto and supressive for the heavy bolter.



#6 MILLANDSON

MILLANDSON

    Playtester

  • Members
  • 3,356 posts

Posted 02 October 2010 - 05:24 AM

Little Dave said:

Nope just full auto and supressive for the heavy bolter.

And since they only carry a backpack of 250 rounds, that means that they only have 25 bursts until they are out of ammo, which means they'll be needing to take along a sidearm too.


~Yea, Tho I Walk Through The Valley Of The Shadow Of Death, I Shall Fear No Evil~

 

Posts/views/opinions are in no way representative of FFG, and are entirely my own.


#7 Nuada_Obliage

Nuada_Obliage

    Member

  • Members
  • 78 posts

Posted 02 October 2010 - 05:29 AM

How many rounds does it fire in Full Auto or Suppression



#8 MILLANDSON

MILLANDSON

    Playtester

  • Members
  • 3,356 posts

Posted 02 October 2010 - 05:40 AM

Nuada_Obliage said:

How many rounds does it fire in Full Auto or Suppression

The number it states in the stats: 10 shots per Full Auto/Suppression Fire burst.


~Yea, Tho I Walk Through The Valley Of The Shadow Of Death, I Shall Fear No Evil~

 

Posts/views/opinions are in no way representative of FFG, and are entirely my own.


#9 KommissarK

KommissarK

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,499 posts

Posted 02 October 2010 - 05:50 AM

But to answer the initial question, their main weakness is the inability to quickly engage when charged in melee. And even then, they just don't have the talents, nor have they probably put the effort into WS, to actually put up a fight



#10 Brother Argonus

Brother Argonus

    Member

  • Members
  • 6 posts

Posted 02 October 2010 - 06:12 AM

each of the types has flaws and benefits. Personally if your finding the player with a heavy bolter to be a game breaker change your game. I dont mean give up on deathwatch but just remember there are more aspects to the game than combat. As an example players are asked as part of a kill team to help out a captain in the imperial guard as it his men who are bleeding everywhere. But the captain wants to send them on a seek and destroy mission to best make use of their talents. Now they may have to crawl through sewers whose not say that some close combat ensues where he is not able to bring to bear the BFG... or maybe once they get to the enemy's camp the players make their plan in which the devastator must cover the enemy soldiers as they need a distraction so as to allow the rest of the team to kill the enemy commander. Try to think sideways rather than big gun and one way forward. Besides there may come a time when the players will need a bit of superior firepower.



#11 Radomo

Radomo

    Member

  • Members
  • 248 posts

Posted 02 October 2010 - 08:47 AM

MILLANDSON said:

Little Dave said:

 

Nope just full auto and supressive for the heavy bolter.

 

 

And since they only carry a backpack of 250 rounds, that means that they only have 25 bursts until they are out of ammo, which means they'll be needing to take along a sidearm too.

 

Minor note:  The weapon should come loaded, so it's actually 31 rounds.  



#12 moepp

moepp

    Member

  • Members
  • 127 posts

Posted 02 October 2010 - 09:28 AM

Radomo said:

 

Minor note:  The weapon should come loaded, so it's actually 31 rounds.  

Not exactly.

The 60 rounds capacity is only in effect if the heavy bolter is used without the backpack. With the backpack the clip size changes to 250 rounds (so 25 turns of full-auto). The weapon is directly linked to the backpack and doesn´t need to reload until the backpack is empty.

The only way for more ammo I can see is if other squadmembers would carry additional backpacks and swap em (which takes a while, so probably not during combat) as soon as the devastator runs dry. But that´s pretty unconventional except maybe on very long missions.

 

 



#13 ak-73

ak-73

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,690 posts

Posted 02 October 2010 - 10:27 AM

Rawrz said:

Ok, so I got a player who's a Devastator, maybe it's not leaping out at me by reading the rulebook, but what really is the draw back for being a devastator?  A heavy weapon that takes just one full action to brace?  Oh noes.    I'd like to get some type of challenge to the group, but with a devastator, hordes and most enemies don't stand a chance under one round of fire.  

Is there a weakness to Devastators?  If you could think of an encounter that puts the heavy weapon marines thru, what would it be like? 

 

Yes, there is a weakness, but you won't find it in the rules section:

He is the most obvious target. If the kill-team gets into a fight, the enemy is likely to do as the kill-team would do: concentrate fire on the main offensive weapon. Next in line is probably a librarian.

Also I can assure you that genestealers in close combat ruin anyone's day, devastator or no.

 

 

Alex

 



#14 Santiago

Santiago

    Veteran

  • Members
  • 1,504 posts

Posted 02 October 2010 - 11:19 AM

Indeed, the old D&D problem.....everybody on the Wizard.....ehr Devastator....



#15 Direach

Direach

    Member

  • Members
  • 183 posts

Posted 02 October 2010 - 11:22 AM

There IS a single-shot mode for the heavy bolter, sort of: if you use Hellfire rounds, the heavy bolter's ROF changes to S/-/-. It does require your Devastator to switch between his ammo feed and a second clip with Hellfire rounds (since a heavy bolter can't take a fire selector), but it does give you another option for blowing away hordes with less ammo expenditure.



#16 Santiago

Santiago

    Veteran

  • Members
  • 1,504 posts

Posted 02 October 2010 - 12:47 PM

 You'll probably have to load them by hand, individually



#17 Radomo

Radomo

    Member

  • Members
  • 248 posts

Posted 02 October 2010 - 03:45 PM

moepp said:

 

Radomo said:

 

 

Minor note:  The weapon should come loaded, so it's actually 31 rounds.  

 

 

Not exactly.

The 60 rounds capacity is only in effect if the heavy bolter is used without the backpack. With the backpack the clip size changes to 250 rounds (so 25 turns of full-auto). The weapon is directly linked to the backpack and doesn´t need to reload until the backpack is empty.

The only way for more ammo I can see is if other squadmembers would carry additional backpacks and swap em (which takes a while, so probably not during combat) as soon as the devastator runs dry. But that´s pretty unconventional except maybe on very long missions.

 

 

 

 

 

You know, I missed that line.  My read was that you got 60 rounds in the belt, and then had to spend a round to reload every 60 rounds, up to 250 in the backpack.  But essentially, unless you use special ammo, you never reload a heavy weapon attached to a backpack.

 

It does seem odd that all the other weapons have 'enough ammunition to last the mission' and the Heavy bolter and Assault Cannon is so limited (the other heavy weapons have 75 or 100 rounds of firing).  I suppose you just requisition some Kraken rounds at 10 Req per clip if 250 is not enough.  

 

I wonder if you can even get additional ammo for a Assault cannon.  If so, how much requisition?  +15 since it's 3x as big as the Hvy Bolter?

 



#18 HappyDaze

HappyDaze

    Member

  • Members
  • 4,827 posts

Posted 03 October 2010 - 02:14 AM

moepp said:

Radomo said:

 

 

Minor note:  The weapon should come loaded, so it's actually 31 rounds.  

 

 

Not exactly.

The 60 rounds capacity is only in effect if the heavy bolter is used without the backpack. With the backpack the clip size changes to 250 rounds (so 25 turns of full-auto). The weapon is directly linked to the backpack and doesn´t need to reload until the backpack is empty.

The only way for more ammo I can see is if other squadmembers would carry additional backpacks and swap em (which takes a while, so probably not during combat) as soon as the devastator runs dry. But that´s pretty unconventional except maybe on very long missions.

 

 

Oddly enough, the standard rules for Deathwatch are that you have an endless supply of ranged weapon ammo (including missiles and grenades) and only have to track specialty ammo.  I don't follow that rule, but it's what's in the books.


Ignore, Ignore, you must learn Ignore!

 

Now Ignoring: Nobody!


#19 Santiago

Santiago

    Veteran

  • Members
  • 1,504 posts

Posted 03 October 2010 - 02:57 AM

HappyDaze said:

moepp said:

 

Radomo said:

 

 

Minor note:  The weapon should come loaded, so it's actually 31 rounds.  

 

 

Not exactly.

The 60 rounds capacity is only in effect if the heavy bolter is used without the backpack. With the backpack the clip size changes to 250 rounds (so 25 turns of full-auto). The weapon is directly linked to the backpack and doesn´t need to reload until the backpack is empty.

The only way for more ammo I can see is if other squadmembers would carry additional backpacks and swap em (which takes a while, so probably not during combat) as soon as the devastator runs dry. But that´s pretty unconventional except maybe on very long missions.

 

 

 

 

Oddly enough, the standard rules for Deathwatch are that you have an endless supply of ranged weapon ammo (including missiles and grenades) and only have to track specialty ammo.  I don't follow that rule, but it's what's in the books.



Endless Ammo, where is that stated

Note: Reloading a weapons with a rate of -/-/10 and a Clip of 250 is every 26th round of fire....you'll expell 10 shells each round of firing



#20 MILLANDSON

MILLANDSON

    Playtester

  • Members
  • 3,356 posts

Posted 03 October 2010 - 03:00 AM

Santiago said:



Endless Ammo, where is that stated

Note: Reloading a weapons with a rate of -/-/10 and a Clip of 250 is every 26th round of fire....you'll expell 10 shells each round of firing

 

Under "Ammunition" on page 158.

I quote "Weapons Requisitioned from the Deathwatch come with a sufficient supply of standard ammunition for the weapon."


~Yea, Tho I Walk Through The Valley Of The Shadow Of Death, I Shall Fear No Evil~

 

Posts/views/opinions are in no way representative of FFG, and are entirely my own.





© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS