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Squad Mode

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#1 TechVoid



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Posted 27 September 2010 - 07:17 PM

Hey folks,

I have some questions about the squad actions (p. 219):

1st: I do not understand what it means that an action is a free, half, full or re-action.

Let's take the bolter assautl (p. 221) which is a free action. Does that mean, that a mean who announces this action and every marine in support range takes immediatly a free action and makes a charge movement and one standard attack?
And now every marine is left with his own actions which may be two half actions or one full action?
So does bolter assault happen in addition to the normal actions of every marine?

Or take squad advace. It takes a half action.
So does the marine announce squad advance during his action and sacrifices a half action? And at any time out of his turn he is allowed to make a tactical advance as a re-action?

2nd: Sustain Squad Action

I do not fully understand how an action can be sustained. Let's take again the squad advance, which can be sustained (Sustained: Yes). I lookt at it like this:
Space Marine A uses Tactical Advance.
Space Marine B changes from another squad action to tactical advance.
Now Space Marine A ends tatical advance and starts another squad action.

It seems to me that you can sustain squad actions be "giving" them to another fellow marine?

My next problem is the difference between sustained and not sustained:
[...] once an ability has been activated, it remains so for the remainder of the Mission (if the ability is Sustained) or for the duration of a singel combat (if the ability is not Sustained) [...]

Does that mean, if a squad action is listed with Sustained: No then this action can be used the whole combat but afterwards it is over? And must be repaid with cohesion at the start of the next combat?

And other actions which are listed with Sustained: Yes, they are active as long at least one marine uses that action? The whole mission?

Best regards,

#2 Charmander



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Posted 29 September 2010 - 09:15 AM

I was confused by most of this as well, and curently, my understanding, which could be totally flawed, is this:

The action listed by each ability is the action required to activate the power.  So if it says full action, it take a full round action to turn the ability on, effectively enabling it for the next turn.  I am assuming this because some of the descriptions of the advances refer to gaining the ability to reduce the requried activation action from full to half, or half to free.  This means that all other marines currently in squad mode would inherit the ability as a free action on their turn, and the activating marine would be minus whatever the activation cost was for that turn.

I think that sustained abilities are tied to the original activating marine.  I gathered this from the side bar example, where it talks about the two marines using fire for effect (or something) and on the next turn the activating marine takes a different action.  It describes the second marine who was 'borrowing' the power as losing the ability.

Given that, sustainment is on for as long as the Marine who activated the ability doesn't swap out for another ability, or if the squad loses all cohesion.  As soon as an ability is swapped or turned off, it's gone and then has to be re-activated (and cohesion re-spent). 

As for duration, I think the length of sustainment is listed as being the whole of the mission, unless otherwise specified as a combat. 

So the activating marine activates their ability, and at least one other Marine is within their area of influence, and the squad never loses cohesion (which dumps them into solo mode), and the activating marine never opts to use a different power than the one they activated, the power would be active for the whole adventure.

#3 Xenoviel



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Posted 29 September 2010 - 06:18 PM

The listed action type is for the kill-team member who activates the ability. If the ability grants actions to the squad members these usually take place outside of initiative order and are detailed by the specific ability. Other squad mode abilities alter specific kinds of actions and these are explainex within the text of each ability. The listed action cost remains the typeof action that is expended by the kill-team member who wishes to activate that ability. If an ability is sustained, it is by the member who activated it initially. If they die or fall unconscious the sustained ability ends. 

#4 TechVoid



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Posted 29 September 2010 - 08:54 PM

Fine Battle-Brothers that we agree in some points.

I also take some ideas how it could be meant from sidebars or improvements. So let's make some examples.

Example 1:

The Kill-Team comes close to the hostile area and the squad leader decides to call for Squad Advance (page 221). It costs him 1 cohension and takes a half-action. Since there is no battle and thus no counting for initiative rounds the half-action is spent easily. Since this ability might be sustained all the Battle-Brothers in Support Range may choose to use their Reactions for a Tactical Advance. 

Example 2:

During a combat

It is the turn of Marine B. Since he is in Squad Mode he might benefit from the Squad Advance the leader called for at the beginning.  But he decides that they encounter dangerous enemys and calls out for Tactical Spacing ( page 224). He spends a Full Action and another 1 cohesion and is done. 

Now it is the turn of Marine C who is also in Squad Mode. He has do decide now wheter he wants to stay in Squad Advance or switch to Tactical Spacing. Since some enemys seem to have him as their primary target he decides that it would be nice to get some extra Reactions. So at the start of his turn as a free action he switches to Tactical Spacing and enganges the enemy.

The Apothecarius notices the leader bleeding from many wounds and thinks how to get close to him very quickly. The decides to stay in Squad Advance in takes a Full Action to run towards his Battle Brother.


Now out of Turn for the Marines:

The Apothecarius waits for the first action from an enemy and uses this to trigger his Reaction. With his Reaction he makes a Tactical Advance to come next to his squad leader and hope he can treat his injuries if it is his (Apothecarius') turn again. 

Later that round Marine C suffers from heavy gunfire and dodges the first attack with his Reaction. But another enemy shoots at him and now Marine C is happy to have switched to Tactical Spacing because he takes the so far not used Reaction from Marine B as his own and dodges another attack.


Is this right so far?



#5 Charmander



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Posted 30 September 2010 - 08:45 AM

I think you're right so far

#6 Einbauschrank



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Posted 04 October 2010 - 09:10 PM

I asked Ross about this and he clarified it.

Here is what I asked and what he answered:

>My questions are as follows:

> 1. Which abilities can be chosen and used in squad mode?
> As I understand it, this would sum up to: The leader's specialty
> restricts the Oath, the Oath restricts the available codex patterns.
> The leader's chapter determines the chapter specific abilities
> which may be triggered and only benefit Marines from the same
> chapter unless the leader has Tactical Expertise.

Any member of the Kill-team can initiate a Squad Mode ability; it does
not have to be the leader (thus, Tactical Expertise is a benefit even
if the Tactical Marine is not the leader). Otherwise your statement
above is essentially correct.

> 2. How often do you have to pay for squad abilities? It is written
> that you have to pay only once during a mission (p. 219). What's
> the point of sustaining an ability then?

This is explained on page 219. If the power is sustained, the Kill-
team may use the ability at will for the duration of the mission. If
the power is not sustained, the Kill-team may use the ability at will
for the duration of a single combat. If you wish to use the Squad Mode
abilities in another mission (for sustained) or another combat (for
non-sustained), you need to pay the Cohesion cost again.

> 3. Can different abilities be sustained by different squad members
> at the same time?


> 4. The Action cost. If e.g. a Bolter Assault  is a
> free action, does this mean you can charge and shoot as a free
> action in squad mode and then charge again as a full action with a
> melee weapon as part of your normal turn?
> Thanks a lot!







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