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Elite advances, How much do you charge??


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#1 Shockwave

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 10:28 AM

Bring the strict preview of the GM as to both the cost and if the player, is infact, allowed to buy them. How do you charge or would you charge for them?

 

Example.

How much would you charge for an Imperial Psykers 2oth power, his 10th in his second discipline?

Or

Psychic Supremacy for the same character.

 

Now, how about just a simple extra power? and Psychic Supremacy for that character?



#2 immortal elf

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 10:45 AM

I'd ask them how much XP they think the worth to them first...



#3 Charax

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 11:24 AM

I put significant weight on the Elite part of Elite Advances, so the player would either have to give up something valuable or convince me they deserve the advance. for Psychic Supremacy I would expect them (depending on level) to pay at least 400XP and a fate point (or, depending on the method by which they convince me they earned it, corruption and/or insanity points) for that kind of ability.

I would rarely leave it at just X amout of XP for the advance, that doesn't strike me as nearly special enough for Elite Advances



#4 Shockwave

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 12:27 PM

immortal elf said:

I'd ask them how much XP they think the worth to them first...

If you have a good solid group of players i can see how that works. But, In my experience the entire group is never like that, thus some, if only 1, will take the piss.

 

To Charax,

I take it your from the school of "permission to advance?" (BTW nothing wrong with it, I'm more of the "thanks for informing me")

BUT, asking for Fate points just seems, harsh.



#5 Charax

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 12:45 PM

permission to Elite Advance, yes, and the cost would be proportionate - if someone just wanted a skill from outside their scheme (or earlier than normal) the cost wouldn't be nearly as harsh, but Psychic Supremacy's a big deal, if not in actual effect, then in terms of what it represents. If someone wants complete mastery over a discipline, then I'd say a Fate point isn't too big a cost (bearing in mind Psychic Supremacy's prerequisites, chances are that characters who reach there and want it probably have a couple more fate points than they really need anyway)



#6 Snidesworth

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 01:00 PM

Depends on the Elite Advance. "Double Cost, time spent" is the usual formula, but I'm planning to give the acolytes in my some XP-free additional training if they survive their current mission since, if they do, they'll have marked themselves for something special. That, and the group lacks a few skills that it sorely needs to make up for. The feral guardsman, for example, will probably get rid of the "doesn't like tech" part of his background and pick up the Trade (Technomat) skill since he's the cell's wheelman, would have encountered vehicles during his pre-recruitment background ("feral" was used loosely here) and nobody else in the cell knows how to fix things. The assassin, meanwhile, will be picking up Common Lore (Machine Cult) and something else related to represent himself getting drawn into the faith of the Adaptus Mechanicus. I may end up charging XP for these when the time comes, but definitely not double.



#7 Shockwave

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 01:09 PM

Permission to Elite advance is a given, it is part of the rules of Elite advancement. So if we were to ignore that part of it...

 

Scholar Empyrean wants Basic Weapon Training - Bolt. It is avilable to Imperial Psykers, but not those who do not go the "militant" route. What would you cost that as?

 

I ask because i can not see that costing a Fate point. I agree the Psychic Supremacy is very good, but is it really Fate point worthy? I can see that 20th power in my first post costing that, due to the cascading effects it has.



#8 N0-1_H3r3

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 01:09 PM

I'm not quite as strict as Charax in terms of Elite Advances (though none of my players have ever actually asked for any - they're content to take advances from their career paths), but for Psychic Supremacy, I'd charge a minimum of 500xp, and expect them to spend a significant portion of their downtime (and/or some other, less pleasant 'cost', such as the accumulation of Corruption or Insanity points... or worse) to aquire it. It's an extremely potent effect, and not one that should be given out lightly.


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#9 Charax

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 03:24 PM

Shockwave said:

Scholar Empyrean wants Basic Weapon Training - Bolt. It is avilable to Imperial Psykers, but not those who do not go the "militant" route. What would you cost that as? 

I ask because i can not see that costing a Fate point.

Neither can I. I said the fate point was what I'd charge for Psychic Supremacy, not for any Elite Advance. you seem to be entirely too hung up on that.

For basic weapon training - Bolt I'd charge 200 XP + a good reason. So, for example, if the Scholar had spent the last two sessions trying to use Bolt weapons, that would demonstrate a good amount of practice that would earn him the option to take the advance.



#10 Crimsonsphinx

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 10:55 PM

I think with elite advances I would consider the character, and if they had used the skill involved.  For example, I would make it cheaper to aquire basic weapons bolt, if the character had used on already on a mission, than I would if he decided to just buy it.  That said, anyone wanting to finance a bolt weapon is welcome to buy the advance!

Psychics work somewhat differently.  Psychic supremacy is a very powerful advance.  I think a fate point and experience is not that high a price to pay if they really wanted the advance.  Should a player only have one fate point left, I might have to do it slightly differently, as that would be unfair to ask them to sacrifice their only point.

While on this topic, what would peoples opinions on allowing the purchase of psy rating as an elite advance for other careers be?  Provided they had reason to do so in the story, not just buy out right with no reason.  [Im thinking eldar farseer unlocking psychic potential here, along those lines].  I only ask because nascent psycher is rather decent for no cost, provided you only use when its safe to do so.



#11 Shockwave

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 04:27 AM

Charax said:

 

Neither can I. I said the fate point was what I'd charge for Psychic Supremacy, not for any Elite Advance. you seem to be entirely too hung up on that.

Perhaps.

I agree that Psychic Supremacy is powerful and because it is not on any career lists, it is somewhat more of a special advance. There has to be a strong background reason to try and take it. But it terms of absolute power, that 20th power (10th in a second discipline) is far more powerful i feel, thus should cost more (Though I note that no one has yet to put a price on it yet).

I'm guessing though that for most of you, that 20th power, is not as powerful as i think it is. Thus in your eyes the most expensive of the two would be psyhic supremacy.






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