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Blip Piles and Event cards.


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#1 TWThomas

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 06:42 AM

I have found a serious misunderstanding either on my behalf or others, not sure which.

The question is in relation to which blip pile is used when an event card activates GS's.

My Opinion: I feel the rules indicate that you draw an event card and pull GS's from the left or right pile based on the location on the card. Left comes from left and right comes from right. Regardless of where the terrain piece is. That way the blip piles are semi-evenly depleted.

Others opinion: The GS's are pulled from the pile that matches the side the colored terrain piece is from. Therefore for example if both yellow and red are on the left, all GS's are pulled from the left pile. This could deplete a pile pretty quickly. Two major activations could take 4 GS from a pile of 5 or 6 if the terrain is on one side.

I think it is obvious why I want clarity on this as it impacts a Major mechanic of the game. Traveling is soley based on piles being depleted. Therefore a method of pulling that would deplete a pile in two turns would otherwise take thre or four turns possibly.

Hopefully I have explained my point and the two methods well enough to allow replies.

 

 



#2 wikear

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 07:35 AM

The way I play it is as follows:

If I get a card like 'Secret Route' (find it to know what I mean) I pick a 'major swarm' amount from left if orange location is on the left and 'major swarm' from right if the green location is on the right.

That means that yes, there will be situations that you won't get a new swarm appear on location. That gives me time to support up, relocate and stuff.

 

Hope that helps! :D



#3 wikear

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 07:37 AM

But... I just looked at the rulebook again. I think you spawn from the blip pile where the location is located. The colour on the event card doesn't matter. So if you have an orange location on the left you take from that pile. If you run out... you travel by the end of Event Phase...

Need to revise my games lol :D



#4 TWThomas

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 07:42 AM

Here is why I feel the way I do.

The rule book reads:

_______________________________________
Pg 14:
The boxes are resolved from left to right and either
spawn new Genestealers

 

Pg 21:

Whenever a Genestealer is spawned, the current
player takes the top card of a blip pile and places it
face up in the appropriate position and side of the
formation.

When the activation area of an Event card spawns
Genestealers, a number of Genestealer cards are
spawned on each position of the formation that
contains the appropriate Terrain card type.
____________________________________________

I read that to mean that a Spawn Happens from the left first then right.
I spawn from the left blip pile first (pg 14) and then place them on whichever side contains that color of terrain (pg21).

Why else would it say to place it on the appropriate position and SIDE of the formation? That indicates that ones from the left pile could go right and vice versa, correct?
 



#5 wikear

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 08:42 AM

Hmmm... you mean that if the left Spawn Marker on the Event Card is Red and a Red location is on the right side of Space Marines you take from left Blip Pile and place GS on right hand side location?

That makes some sense.



#6 TWThomas

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 09:35 AM

Wikear, that's exactly what I mean. I just feel I am on an Island as I am one of very few who see it this way. It appears that the majority feel the GS's come from the side where that terrain exists.

That just makes no sense to me since the rules very clearly indicate  you can place the GS on the other side from the blip pile. Why would that even be written if it was based on terrain location?

The thing is I see it very clearly this way and have a really hard time seeing why one would play it differently. However so many people see it the other way I am scratching my head wishing Corey would post in here and settle my confusion.

 

 



#7 wikear

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 09:38 AM

As I said; I wrongly assumed that right or left postion on the Event Card had to correspond with Terrain Card next to Formation. If it's on the other we just didn't place antyhing. Guess that's why it seemed slow at times.

It would be nice if someone from FFG could respond to queries like that or a straightforward FAQ be released...



#8 ant1clock

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 11:05 AM

Doesn't the important part at the top of page 22 explain this clearly. If the location is red and its on the left side of the formation spawn the GS from the left blip pile, similarly if the location is green and its on the right side of the formation take it from the right blip pile.



#9 miles601

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 11:44 AM

My understanding of the activation area at the bottom of the Event cards is that it gives you no information as to what side of the formation the Genestealers spawn.  The Left color tell you which location(s) receives major spawn.  The Right color tells you what spawn location(s) receives a minor spawn.

@TW:  The language you cite on Page 14 of the rules gives you a chronology for the activation.  Major first, then minor, then movement.  The language you cite on page 22 makes sure you place the spawn appropriately Position (vertical) and Side (horizontal) to match it to the Location.

IMO you are reading too much into the rules and creating an extra step for yourselves.  I don't think you take the step of matching the Event card's activation area Left/Right to actual Locations placement in the formation Left/Right to see whether or not the spawn happens. Skipping this step should increase the amount of spawns you face, which, I think is the idea.  The game is meant to be (from what I can tell) an unrelenting assault upon your small group of Marines.



#10 miles601

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 12:25 PM

boy do I stand corrected!  Just played the game and noticed that the Major and Minor spawns have nothing to do with placement on the Event card, but rather the color of the triangles on the Event card dictates whether the location receives a major or minor spawn.  I played 5 or 6 times and never noticed the triangles being different colors.

I still stand by what I said regarding not having to match the Left and Right part of the Event card to the Left and Right side of the formation.  You chronologically spawn left to right based on event and place the spawns on the location they are happening to regardless of Location placement.



#11 wikear

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 12:28 PM

ant1clock said:

 

Doesn't the important part at the top of page 22 explain this clearly. If the location is red and its on the left side of the formation spawn the GS from the left blip pile, similarly if the location is green and its on the right side of the formation take it from the right blip pile.

 

 

So you say that's how it should be played?

 

Eventhough red is on the left and orange on the right? The way I play with my mates is that we wouldn't place any GS this turn.

Now, the wording:  A major spawn on each yellow Terrain card and a minor spawn on each red Terrain card no matter where it is? Like in the example above?

The GS cards are drawn from the blip pile where the Terrain card is located, that we got cleared :D



#12 wikear

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 12:34 PM

That would make the game, as Miles said, really hard for Marines, and I guess it should be.

So, to sum up:

After drawing an Event card you place GS according to what the card reads, no matter where the Terraina card is located. Also, if it's on left side of the Formation you draw GS from left Blip Pile, if it's on the right hand of the Formation you draw them from the right Blip Pile. Then movement of any GS that belong to the Swarm indicated on the Event Card.

Hope it's clear to everyone now... yes, it makes it ultra hard :D



#13 TWThomas

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 07:45 PM

ant1clock said:

Doesn't the important part at the top of page 22 explain this clearly. If the location is red and its on the left side of the formation spawn the GS from the left blip pile, similarly if the location is green and its on the right side of the formation take it from the right blip pile.

I am not sure that makes it clearer to me. All that says is that the GS are taken from the 'appropriate' side. In my opinion, that means the side that you are reading from the event card. Left or right.



#14 TWThomas

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 08:00 PM

miles601 said:

My understanding of the activation area at the bottom of the Event cards is that it gives you no information as to what side of the formation the Genestealers spawn.  The Left color tell you which location(s) receives major spawn.  The Right color tells you what spawn location(s) receives a minor spawn.

@TW:  The language you cite on Page 14 of the rules gives you a chronology for the activation.  Major first, then minor, then movement.  The language you cite on page 22 makes sure you place the spawn appropriately Position (vertical) and Side (horizontal) to match it to the Location.

IMO you are reading too much into the rules and creating an extra step for yourselves.  I don't think you take the step of matching the Event card's activation area Left/Right to actual Locations placement in the formation Left/Right to see whether or not the spawn happens. Skipping this step should increase the amount of spawns you face, which, I think is the idea.  The game is meant to be (from what I can tell) an unrelenting assault upon your small group of Marines.

 

I think you misunderstand what I am saying. I don't skip anything unless the Blip Pile is empty per the rules.

In the example shown above (somewhat poor example for my point since both are 1 GS Spawns), you would take (since the event card is read left to right)1 GS from the left pile and place it on red on the right side  and then 1 GS from the right pile and place it on yellow on the left. Then since no movement is shown, that event phase would end.

Imagine if the location "Void Lock" and red and yellow were both on the left. That would deplete the left GS pile in one event. (depleted blib pile causes travel at the end of the phase) More than likely, you would travel to the last room in three or four events if playing the way many suggest because it would require 9 GS from the left pile.

 I submit that by doing it my way. 5 would come from the left pile and 4 from the right although all 9 would be on the left side of the formation. Yes it is deadlier and it makes the game longer but that is how I believe it was designed.



#15 TWThomas

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 08:07 PM

wikear said:

ant1clock said:

 

Doesn't the important part at the top of page 22 explain this clearly. If the location is red and its on the left side of the formation spawn the GS from the left blip pile, similarly if the location is green and its on the right side of the formation take it from the right blip pile.

 

 

So you say that's how it should be played?

 

Eventhough red is on the left and orange on the right? The way I play with my mates is that we wouldn't place any GS this turn.

Now, the wording:  A major spawn on each yellow Terrain card and a minor spawn on each red Terrain card no matter where it is? Like in the example above?

The GS cards are drawn from the blip pile where the Terrain card is located, that we got cleared :D

 

In this example, you would spawn 1 GS from the left pile (read the event card left to right) but because the red location is on the right, that is where it would go. Spawn 1 because the triangle is white and its a minor spawn. The mover right on the event card. Spawn 1 GS from the right pile but place it on the left because the yellow location is on the left. Then do movement.Since not movement is indicated, the event phase ends.

Had either triangle been yellow, two GS would come from that blib side to all locations that are the background color of the terrain indicator. If you had 2 red locations, 1 left and 1 right and the red was the left one on the event card, all 4 GS would come from the left pile and 2 would go to each side.

 

 



#16 wikear

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 08:39 PM

Can't agree with that.

p.21

Spawning Genestealers are always drawn from the blip pile on the side on which they are being spawned.

By being spawned they mean come to play on to Terrain card.

 

Plus on p.23 you got an example. Read through it carefully.

It reads:

p.23

The current player takes three cards from that side's blip pile and places them on the position containing yellow Terrain card.

 

 



#17 cheinzmann

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 11:12 PM

In the picture example that is shown here, 'Surrounded' is drawn and you resolve the activations from left to right as indicated on the 'Surrounded' card. This is the order in which it takes place (Red then Orange) and doesn't have anything to do with which blip pile is drawn from.

The Red location is the first to spawn in this phase and it will spawn 1 Genestealer because it has a white triangle and on the Void Lock card the white Triangle has a '1' in it showing the number of blip cards that will be drawn. The Orange location will get 1 Genestealer as well.

From page 14 . b. Resolve Genestealer Activations: After resolving the Event Card's ability, each of the boxes on the bottom of the Event card are resolved. The boxes are resolved from left to right and either spawn new Genestealers or move existing swarms of Genestealers.   All this means is that in the pictured example the Red box location gets new Genestealers before the Orange box location. Not which blip pile it's drawn from.

The Ventilator Duct is the 'Red' location on the right side of the formation column, next to Brother Zael and as indicated above, 1 card from the right side blip pile is drawn from and placed on the Ventilator duct.

Next, the Dark Corner is Orange and on the left of the formation column so it gets 1 card from the left side blip pile.

From page 22. Spawning Genestealers are always drawn from the blip pile on the side on which they are being spawned...

The Red location is on the right, so right side blip pile spawns a Genestealer. The Orange location is on the left so the left side blip pile spawns.

Page 23 also shows this in the pictured example shown there.

 

 



#18 OniNoTed

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 04:24 AM

Amen Cheinzmann.  That is how I play it. Great description.



#19 miles601

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 04:26 AM

Nicely done. 



#20 TWThomas

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 08:00 AM

cheinzmann said:

In the picture example that is shown here, 'Surrounded' is drawn and you resolve the activations from left to right as indicated on the 'Surrounded' card. This is the order in which it takes place (Red then Orange) and doesn't have anything to do with which blip pile is drawn from.

The Red location is the first to spawn in this phase and it will spawn 1 Genestealer because it has a white triangle and on the Void Lock card the white Triangle has a '1' in it showing the number of blip cards that will be drawn. The Orange location will get 1 Genestealer as well.

From page 14 . b. Resolve Genestealer Activations: After resolving the Event Card's ability, each of the boxes on the bottom of the Event card are resolved. The boxes are resolved from left to right and either spawn new Genestealers or move existing swarms of Genestealers.   All this means is that in the pictured example the Red box location gets new Genestealers before the Orange box location. Not which blip pile it's drawn from.

The Ventilator Duct is the 'Red' location on the right side of the formation column, next to Brother Zael and as indicated above, 1 card from the right side blip pile is drawn from and placed on the Ventilator duct.

Next, the Dark Corner is Orange and on the left of the formation column so it gets 1 card from the left side blip pile.

From page 22. Spawning Genestealers are always drawn from the blip pile on the side on which they are being spawned...

The Red location is on the right, so right side blip pile spawns a Genestealer. The Orange location is on the left so the left side blip pile spawns.

Page 23 also shows this in the pictured example shown there.

 

Great explanation! This makes perfect sense to me and a great way to play it.

This, as you explain, makes the priority on the color of terrain. That way if the GS's piles run out the enemy is coming from a particular place first.

The only thing this doesn't explain and I am ready to just set aside as shoddy rules editing, is the wording that indicates putting GS's on the proper side and location of the formation. Why in the world they write that?

 






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