Jump to content



Photo

Sneak Peek >> Player's Guide


  • Please log in to reply
43 replies to this topic

#1 ynnen

ynnen

    Member

  • Members
  • 197 posts

Posted 24 September 2010 - 02:49 AM

As we announced previously in our Sifting Through Shadows preview, there are several new products on the way that break up the Core Set materials into individual titles, giving fans new options in how they enjoy WFRP.

Now you can get your first glimpse of what's included in the upcoming Player's Guide. Download the sample spreads and see for yourself what's coming for Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay fans.



#2 Kryyst

Kryyst

    Member

  • Members
  • 376 posts

Posted 24 September 2010 - 07:16 AM

Looks good.  Will these be available in PDF?



#3 Dustin

Dustin

    Member

  • Members
  • 164 posts

Posted 24 September 2010 - 11:49 AM

 I am also curious to see how they streamlined the rules to not have to use the components (I guess that would be a detailed Character sheet or something?)



#4 commoner

commoner

    Member

  • Members
  • 343 posts

Posted 24 September 2010 - 12:55 PM

If the modes of play section is any indication, this is more than the rulebooks reprinted and more than streamlining.  This is a great deal more expansive than what's already been published.  It's a cleverly disguised revise edition called a reprint.  I mean, I know the boons/banes section on initiative has always been implied in the rules, but never as detailed or as defined as it is on that page, with specific examples.  Banes/Boons on initiative now matter.  It's enough information that in my opinion we could call it actually a "new" rule.  Not that that's a bad thing, but it is a huge difference to:  "if you have the core, you have all the information."  That's true, we do, but these clarifications (if the modes section is any indication) are more than clarifications, their straight up content.  I never once thought of doing that with initiative.  Never once.  If I had never read it, I would never have even thought of using it (and I am very explorative of the banes/boons mechanics).

Overall though, that addition makes me hugely excited.  I will more than likely be getting these if this is the type of info we can see throughout the books.  It's a huge step forward.  It still makes me hesitant as to the future of component play if they keep printing books like this.  I'll just have to wait and see. 

Great job though and I love the career layout.  I do not like the page layout on the action cards.  It's really hard to read and poorly organized.  It's certainly not how I would have done it if I was given the chance (lol).  Hopefully, it will be fixed before it hits the printers. 

 

 



#5 hogscape

hogscape

    Member

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 24 September 2010 - 09:04 PM

There's a small burning sensation at the back of my skull...

How will the game be changed to remove the reliance on cards and tokens?

If it works, count me back in!



#6 commoner

commoner

    Member

  • Members
  • 343 posts

Posted 24 September 2010 - 09:17 PM

hogscape said:

There's a small burning sensation at the back of my skull...

How will the game be changed to remove the reliance on cards and tokens?

If it works, count me back in!

My guess...

copying down tables from books (action cards), copying down abilities from talent lists and lots of hatch marks in tiny boxes.  After all, they can't eliminate recharge entirely.  To do so they would have to overhaul the entire system.  So there has to be some mechanism to record it just as tokens record it now, which without them, leaves the old pencil to do the scratching.  I really don't see those going any other way.   

It is just my conjecture though.

Of course I guess you could look up an action every time you use it to check the corresponding chart for the roll.



#7 Emirikol

Emirikol

    ~Ĉiam subskribi antaŭ-nup kun Fimir

  • Members
  • 5,084 posts

Posted 25 September 2010 - 07:39 AM

Good choice FFG.

 

jh



#8 Emirikol

Emirikol

    ~Ĉiam subskribi antaŭ-nup kun Fimir

  • Members
  • 5,084 posts

Posted 25 September 2010 - 08:48 AM

I notice the navigator still can't read his own maps. (i.e. basic read/write) so I presume that the Forger also cannot read or write to create forgeries either.

 

jh



#9 keltheos

keltheos

    Member

  • Members
  • 680 posts

Posted 25 September 2010 - 12:20 PM

Emirikol said:

I notice the navigator still can't read his own maps. (i.e. basic read/write) so I presume that the Forger also cannot read or write to create forgeries either.

 

jh

 

Navigator can read his maps. 'this squiggle means hill, this squiggle means home.' ;) It's just maps written with words by others he has trouble with. 



#10 gruntl

gruntl

    Member

  • Members
  • 461 posts

Posted 26 September 2010 - 09:55 AM

commoner said:

If the modes of play section is any indication, this is more than the rulebooks reprinted and more than streamlining.  This is a great deal more expansive than what's already been published.  It's a cleverly disguised revise edition called a reprint.  I mean, I know the boons/banes section on initiative has always been implied in the rules, but never as detailed or as defined as it is on that page, with specific examples.  Banes/Boons on initiative now matter.  It's enough information that in my opinion we could call it actually a "new" rule.  Not that that's a bad thing, but it is a huge difference to:  "if you have the core, you have all the information."  That's true, we do, but these clarifications (if the modes section is any indication) are more than clarifications, their straight up content.  I never once thought of doing that with initiative.  Never once.  If I had never read it, I would never have even thought of using it (and I am very explorative of the banes/boons mechanics).

It could be that they will release this kind of "new rules" as errata to the core set though. It would be new info, but still available for the original core set owners.  



#11 ffgfan

ffgfan

    Member

  • Members
  • 745 posts

Posted 26 September 2010 - 09:01 PM

I'm just wondering when this and the rest of Guides & Vaults products will be avaliable? Jay, could You at least say as the month, please?



#12 Ghiacciolo

Ghiacciolo

    Member

  • Members
  • 117 posts

Posted 26 September 2010 - 09:06 PM

gruntl said:

commoner said:

 

If the modes of play section is any indication, this is more than the rulebooks reprinted and more than streamlining.  This is a great deal more expansive than what's already been published.  It's a cleverly disguised revise edition called a reprint.  I mean, I know the boons/banes section on initiative has always been implied in the rules, but never as detailed or as defined as it is on that page, with specific examples.  Banes/Boons on initiative now matter.  It's enough information that in my opinion we could call it actually a "new" rule.  Not that that's a bad thing, but it is a huge difference to:  "if you have the core, you have all the information."  That's true, we do, but these clarifications (if the modes section is any indication) are more than clarifications, their straight up content.  I never once thought of doing that with initiative.  Never once.  If I had never read it, I would never have even thought of using it (and I am very explorative of the banes/boons mechanics).

 

 

It could be that they will release this kind of "new rules" as errata to the core set though. It would be new info, but still available for the original core set owners.  

 

Amen to that!

Even more puzzled about this hardcover books project...is really like this? the counterless/cardless experience is just "keep in mind/on paper how many rounds have passed from the last time u used an action and the result for x success, boons, banes"???! Again: is something FFG could have explained in a 2page pfd! c'mon guys!

On the contrary, if this book contains more substantial mechanical changes and rules,(as Commoneer and Others have brillantly pointed out) i hope FFG will have the honesty to collect the new rules on a pdf and distribute it for free on the forums or to ppl who purchased the core set (yeah the ones that have supported WHFRPG 3ed. on the first place, and gave the moneys to made this hardbook nonsense possible!!)

Otherwise, if is the latter case, FFG should call these books+vault WHFRPG 4th EDITION...to state clearly that if u want a more polished system u have to upgrade your books. Nothing to be ashemed for, except that ppl will start asking why they 100$+ equipment ran obsolete in less than a year....



#13 Fabs

Fabs

    Member

  • Members
  • 146 posts

Posted 27 September 2010 - 04:11 AM

Calm down, chief :)

Compared to the core set, this book will have expanded examples and more ideas for implementation, including how to manage without using counters, and a better, clearer layout. I wouldn't expect anything further than that on the 'new rules' front. Not that I belittle new ideas and examples ... the number of times someone says something and you thing "What a great idea! It's so obvious! Why didn't i think of that". I've used boons and banes in initative before, mainly to give folks better/worse starting conditions ... but I'm know that Commoner has had lots of good ideas as well, that I've read on the forum and nicked. Hopefully some of the new content will make it's way onto PDFs, but even if not, it will make itself onto discussions on this forum.

As I see it, the main purpose of these books is to try to achieve market penetration into the people who are reluctant to play because of either inital cost (now you can buy one book to start), use of counters/cards (because ... I don't know. In recent years I found myself using counters more and more in RPGs, and transfering quick reference stuff to cards. I was shocked when WHFRP came out as it hadn't occured to me that a game would come like that, straight out the box. But not everyone is like me) and (and I really believe this is a big factor, amongst the roleplaying market) people who just like buying big colourful hardback books.

 



#14 Aladaab

Aladaab

    Member

  • Members
  • 13 posts

Posted 27 September 2010 - 09:48 AM

keltheos said:

 

Navigator can read his maps. 'this squiggle means hill, this squiggle means home.' ;) It's just maps written with words by others he has trouble with. 

If he can't decipher written words, he'll probably have a hard time deciphering squiggles as well ...

FFG needs to fix it.



#15 keltheos

keltheos

    Member

  • Members
  • 680 posts

Posted 27 September 2010 - 12:52 PM

Really? I'm pretty sure illiterate folks have been making their own legible maps for centuries.



#16 Ghiacciolo

Ghiacciolo

    Member

  • Members
  • 117 posts

Posted 27 September 2010 - 11:10 PM

Yeah of course!...on contrary i'm so calm that i cant see how new peeps could be excited by something like this.

Basically...what i see on this "preview" is a load of hard to read pages where the action cards where spreaded. Then i assume the players will have to memorize/note/flip forever the book everytime theirs PC want to attempt one action he spent point to acquire. I will not call this a brillant plan to play cardless nor a brilliant system to roleplay whit so to invite new ppl in.

I think that everyone GMstering here could come up whit a better plan to play cardless...for example forgetting the cards completely and simply making opposed checks where succes: u hit. Every succes +1 damage, boons for criticals, banes for whatever...

As for rule clearness: i think they are making a good job to describe better some forgotten mechanics, like what we see on this preview about story modes and play examples.

But about rules organization and accessibility...sorry not to much of an improvement! Based only on what i see on this preview, a pearl like "boon&banes on initiative check" is still enchased on a side note...i can only hope this would be referenced in the summary. And why something like "managing large (NPC) groups" is in the PLAYER's book?? i'm wondering if every GM would remember to even look to the player's book if he have questions on this topic. Furthermore, if this subject will be repeated in the GM's book, i will not call this a better organization!



#17 Fabs

Fabs

    Member

  • Members
  • 146 posts

Posted 28 September 2010 - 12:01 AM

Ghiacciolo said:

Basically...what i see on this "preview" is a load of hard to read pages where the action cards where spreaded. Then i assume the players will have to memorize/note/flip forever the book everytime theirs PC want to attempt one action he spent point to acquire. I will not call this a brillant plan to play cardless nor a brilliant system to roleplay whit so to invite new ppl in.

I agree completey. I fully believe that this roleplaying system has looked at how best to create a narative (as in the story comes first and the mechanics should not hinder that) fun game, and to assist players and gm's alike towards that goal. To that purpose they have re-thought from the ground up how the whole experience should play out, and designed the game accordingly. The reason why there is cards & counters etc, is because that is the best way to manage the mechanics and ensure they don't hinder the enjoyment. The more me and my friends play it the more we are impressed by what they have done - and they were very suspicious at first and came up with many issues that have never occured once we are actually playing. This is not to say there isn't problems and errors, but that's all the price to pay for something new.

I feel these books are there to try to entice the people in who won't try it because they have a blind spot about cards/counters, not being a hardback etc. Anyone who buys the books and starts playing because of them, will probably end up thinking "Actually, it would be better with the cards/counters etc". I do notice on these boards that the people who actually play it, are so impressed by how it all runs in actually play (takes a session or two to get your head round it, granted), whereas the majority of the negative comments come from people who clearly haven't tried it. Or done so very be-grudgingly.

Wait a minute - there is another category of people who this book is for. Those players who want a reference book to take home, when all the gaming stuff is round the Gm's house. I forget about this category as my gaming companions are as likely to put thier hands in thier pockets towards our hobby, as fly to the moon.



#18 Aladaab

Aladaab

    Member

  • Members
  • 13 posts

Posted 28 September 2010 - 07:04 AM

keltheos said:

Really? I'm pretty sure illiterate folks have been making their own legible maps for centuries.

Really. "Illiteracy: The inability to understand and use a symbol system, whether it is based on sounds, letters, numbers, pictographs, or some other type of symbol." Illiterate is not just uneducated.



#19 Doc, the Weasel

Doc, the Weasel

    Pretending to be many, many things.

  • Members
  • 1,578 posts

Posted 28 September 2010 - 07:11 AM

Aladaab said:

keltheos said:

 

Really? I'm pretty sure illiterate folks have been making their own legible maps for centuries.

 

 

Really. "Illiteracy: The inability to understand and use a symbol system, whether it is based on sounds, letters, numbers, pictographs, or some other type of symbol." Illiterate is not just uneducated.

Well if an interpretation of a definition contradicts the reality of how illiterate people get by in life, then let's just go with the interpretation.


Listen to my actual play podcasts at BeggingForXP.com.

 

Take a look at my Talent Trees (Edge of the Empire and Age of Rebellion), YT-2400 deck plans for the Lazy Bantha, as well as my other handouts.


#20 macd21

macd21

    Member

  • Members
  • 915 posts

Posted 28 September 2010 - 08:49 PM

Aladaab said:

keltheos said:

 

Really? I'm pretty sure illiterate folks have been making their own legible maps for centuries.

 

 

Really. "Illiteracy: The inability to understand and use a symbol system, whether it is based on sounds, letters, numbers, pictographs, or some other type of symbol." Illiterate is not just uneducated.

No. Illiterate means that you have not been taught how to read. It does not mean you don't know how to recognise symbols on a map.






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS