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Brother Leon


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#1 TaiSun

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 04:35 AM

I'm wondering if Brother Leon can shoot it's 3 attack to 3 different targets in different places?



#2 Whitmire

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 08:22 AM

Why not? He gets three attacks made in normal order, one after the other. Compare him with Brother Zael, who can burn one area to cinders, which is a completely different ability.



#3 DoomKing

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 11:34 AM

Whitmire said:

Why not? He gets three attacks made in normal order, one after the other. Compare him with Brother Zael, who can burn one area to cinders, which is a completely different ability.

I don't believe that is correct.  I re-read the rules, and it consistantly refers to attacking a "Swarm", not "Swarms" in the Resolve Action phase section.  There are also no examples provided in the rules that show any Space Marine attacking more the one swarm in a single attack action.

If you gain an additional "regular" attack as a result of an event card, you can choose a separate swarm, but this is a normal attack, not a special attack such as Brother Leons.

I also think this goes along with playbalance issues, and makes the timing of a combat teams Attack action VERY important so that the entire formation will have the needed firepower and coverage in play on each turn. 

Of course, if Corey would like to step in and clarify this point, I'd be very, very happy.  :-)



#4 lexlloyd

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 03:21 PM

I believe Leon can fire at three different swarms, but of course he must be facing his targets.  It's true that the attack rules describe the targeting and attacking of a "swarm" (singular).  But I read his ability to mean that you execute the attack procedure three times, choosing a swarm each time.  In other words, it's not one attack with three die rolls...it's three attacks with one die roll each.



#5 DoomKing

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 05:35 PM

Hi Lex!

You're welcome to play it as you read it, but what exactly on the card lead you to interprit that his attack could be at 3 different swarms?  His attack card just says that he can attack up to 3 times instead of just once?  It doesn't seem to give any indication about targeting.

FYI, I fired off a email to Corey on this, so I'll make sure to post here with whatever he shares.



#6 raizer

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 12:54 AM

I take it kinda like the space hulk game... Leon gets to shoot at multi targets by using extra action points.  So I would say that one card lets him do the same



#7 miles601

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 05:44 AM

FWIW, I ran into this issue last night as I was playing too.  After looking over other "special abilities" and flipping back through the rules, I decided Leon's ability let him "re-aim" and fire at a different swarm if he so chose.

Here is why I felt play balance issued were addressed:  First, even with the ability to attack 3 times, Leon must still be in-range and facing the 3 targets.  This does limit which swarms he could attack.  I felt Leon's ability has the flexability to target multiple swarms which is off-set by the need to roll for successful hits with each attack.  There are other Marines that I can kill multiple targets with a single attack success, which I felt was off-set by the limitation that they would sometimes be forced to waste that ability by attacking swarms that didn't contain 3 targets because they couldn't "re-aim".

Anyway, that was my train of thought and why I felt Leon could re-aim and attack different swarms.



#8 wikear

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 12:43 PM

miles601 said:

FWIW, I ran into this issue last night as I was playing too.  After looking over other "special abilities" and flipping back through the rules, I decided Leon's ability let him "re-aim" and fire at a different swarm if he so chose.

Here is why I felt play balance issued were addressed:  First, even with the ability to attack 3 times, Leon must still be in-range and facing the 3 targets.  This does limit which swarms he could attack.  I felt Leon's ability has the flexability to target multiple swarms which is off-set by the need to roll for successful hits with each attack.  There are other Marines that I can kill multiple targets with a single attack success, which I felt was off-set by the limitation that they would sometimes be forced to waste that ability by attacking swarms that didn't contain 3 targets because they couldn't "re-aim".

Anyway, that was my train of thought and why I felt Leon could re-aim and attack different swarms.

 

I agree with Miles here. His Assault Cannon can scatter shoot three different targets. Leon's flamer cannot and sometimes might waste one kill on overkill (making 3 succesful kills where there are only 2 targets) with one dice roll...

Or Brother Scipio (I think) with his special Close Combat (Range: 0) attack. He can kill three no matter where they are, but he can die on a roll of 0.

They balanced this game pretty well I must say. The more I read into the rules the more thinking I see that had to go into this game. Woah! :D



#9 lexlloyd

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 05:35 PM

I could be wrong but I base my interpretation on a literal reading of the card and direct application of the rules.  The card states:

"Brother Leon may attack up to 3 times (instead of just once)"

To me that implies that you apply the attack procedures three times.  The attack rules direct you to choose a swarm each time you attack, so three attacks allows for up to three different swarm targets.  If the rules meant for Leon to attack only a single swarm I suggest that the red attack card would read: "Leon may roll three times when attacking".

To be honest I think that even with the ability to target 3 different swarms Leon doesn't compare to Claudio and Zael.



#10 wikear

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 06:47 PM

You're correct lexlloyd. Three different attacks, choosing Swarm every time.



#11 DoomKing

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 04:45 AM

Hey guys, just got an email response to my question for Corey (game designer).  He states that Brother Leon can target up to 3 different GS, even if in different swarms (facing and range apply).  Brother Claudio can slay any 3 GS from any swarm within range 1 when using his heroic charge attack.  The Librarian can target any GS (facing and range apply), and he can keep going, even switching swarms, as long as he keeps rolling skulls.

Hope that helps!



#12 TaiSun

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 05:03 AM

DoomKing said:

Hey guys, just got an email response to my question for Corey (game designer).  He states that Brother Leon can target up to 3 different GS, even if in different swarms (facing and range apply).  Brother Claudio can slay any 3 GS from any swarm within range 1 when using his heroic charge attack.  The Librarian can target any GS (facing and range apply), and he can keep going, even switching swarms, as long as he keeps rolling skulls.

Hope that helps!

Official answers always helps, thanks!



#13 wikear

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 05:24 AM

DoomKing said:

Hey guys, just got an email response to my question for Corey (game designer).  He states that Brother Leon can target up to 3 different GS, even if in different swarms (facing and range apply).  Brother Claudio can slay any 3 GS from any swarm within range 1 when using his heroic charge attack.  The Librarian can target any GS (facing and range apply), and he can keep going, even switching swarms, as long as he keeps rolling skulls.

Hope that helps!

 

Big Thanks!



#14 lexlloyd

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 07:04 AM

Thanks for the info Doom, very helpful.  I was playing Leon correctly but screwing up Claudio :[

 



#15 DMStue

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 09:14 AM

Excellent! .... I came here to find an answer and there it is! .... thanks everyone. 



#16 vad9m

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 06:18 PM

DoomKing said:

Hey guys, just got an email response to my question for Corey (game designer).  He states that Brother Leon can target up to 3 different GS, even if in different swarms (facing and range apply).  Brother Claudio can slay any 3 GS from any swarm within range 1 when using his heroic charge attack.  The Librarian can target any GS (facing and range apply), and he can keep going, even switching swarms, as long as he keeps rolling skulls.

Hope that helps!

To clarify:

1. Leon is making three separate attacks and can direct them at different swarms.

2. Claudio is going crazy with his claws and can slay any three stealers within range, regardless of what swarms they are in (This is clear from your post on BGG but not as clear here.)

3. Calistratus is making sequential attacks and can direct each one at a different swarm as long as his dice are hot.

4. But Zael is burning a single swarm.



#17 lexlloyd

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 06:45 AM

Uh oh, now I'm confused again.  I read Doomking's earlier post to mean that Claudio's Heroic Charge would target up to three genestealers in a SINGLE swarm.  But you're saying that he can choose his targets from different swarms?



#18 vad9m

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 08:37 AM

Did you read the BGG thread? From reading the whole thread, it is clear that Cory told Doom King that Claudio can slay any three stealers regardless what swarm they're in.

Doom King, can you post Cory's email?

 



#19 lexlloyd

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 12:29 PM

No I hadn't read that thread, but your clarification makes sense.  Yellow team's attack card certainly doesn't restrict Heroic Charge to a single target.  Thanks for posting your clarification.



#20 Arithil

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 09:03 PM

vad9m said:

DoomKing said:

 

Hey guys, just got an email response to my question for Corey (game designer).  He states that Brother Leon can target up to 3 different GS, even if in different swarms (facing and range apply).  Brother Claudio can slay any 3 GS from any swarm within range 1 when using his heroic charge attack.  The Librarian can target any GS (facing and range apply), and he can keep going, even switching swarms, as long as he keeps rolling skulls.

Hope that helps!

 

 

To clarify:

1. Leon is making three separate attacks and can direct them at different swarms.

2. Claudio is going crazy with his claws and can slay any three stealers within range, regardless of what swarms they are in (This is clear from your post on BGG but not as clear here.)

3. Calistratus is making sequential attacks and can direct each one at a different swarm as long as his dice are hot.

4. But Zael is burning a single swarm.

 

hi guys,

i played the game about 5 times now and haven't won once and i love it

i can see i got leon, claudio and calistratus right

but a friend got me thinking about zael's burning

if i remember right (i dont have the card in front of me) it says i can ignore the skulls and kill as many stealers as the dice result

meaning that if i roll a 3 i kill 3 and if i roll a 4 i kill 4

but my friend suggested that that works only for the 1,2 and 3 results where you actually get a skull

how do you play?

 






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