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White Wolf Drop VTES....oh Please FFG pick it up and make it into an LCG!!!


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#1 khunkwai

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 06:28 PM

Well I used to be a big fan of White Wolf...but their sudden decision to do everything in PDF only from mid 2011 onwards leaves me with a very bad taste in my mouth and the desire to call them up and say a few "words".

Anyway, as we all expected Digital Wolf has now decided to drop VTES as well...hard to publish a CCG in PDF format! Dumping loyal fans around the world and what I believe is the second oldest CCG in existance.

So, I beg and I grovel and I ask.... PLEASE FFG can you PLEASE pick up VTES, make it into an LCG  PLEASE!!!!

 

 



#2 The_Big_Show

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 08:01 AM

Wow. But I'm not surprised. After many years of playing it the game had gotten very convoluted and overly complex.

I wouldn't want to see VTES picked up but an LCG based upon Vampire: the Requiem being more political (VTES was far too much combat based) would be a nice replacement.



#3 Hellfury

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 08:35 AM

With how complicated the licensing is between WotC mechanics and then White Wolf, I seriously doubt it will ever get picked up. Considering how WotC dropped it and now WW, from my limited understanding of things I doubt someone else will pick it up just to end up dropping it like they did due to lack of sales. It was said that "White Wolf sought out many possible licensors to take over the franchise but an accord could not be met."  so I am sure FFG are aware of its state.

Shame about it dying though even if it is hardly surprising. Never good to see a good game go. The CCG model is on its way out though and the only game that can keep it successful is the paper crack addiction of Magic.

I agree with Big Show. Change the mechanics and make a better game based on the license. Less licensing fees (especially since some of it would have gone to FFG's direct competitor) and a more solid game design for the product.

Let it go into torpor and arise later as a newer, stronger leech.

Oh and if you do end up doing something with this license FFG, don't bother with WW's current Vampire background. The revamp (no pun intended) basically killed the roleplaying game. It was a piss poor mistake and most of the reason why such a large amount of interest was lost by their fan base for the roleplaying game.



#4 khunkwai

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 01:36 AM

The_Big_Show said:

Wow. But I'm not surprised. After many years of playing it the game had gotten very convoluted and overly complex.

I wouldn't want to see VTES picked up but an LCG based upon Vampire: the Requiem being more political (VTES was far too much combat based) would be a nice replacement.

True enough something with a little more politics in it would be great.



#5 khunkwai

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 01:41 AM

Hellfury said:

With how complicated the licensing is between WotC mechanics and then White Wolf, I seriously doubt it will ever get picked up. Considering how WotC dropped it and now WW, from my limited understanding of things I doubt someone else will pick it up just to end up dropping it like they did due to lack of sales. It was said that "White Wolf sought out many possible licensors to take over the franchise but an accord could not be met."  so I am sure FFG are aware of its state.

Shame about it dying though even if it is hardly surprising. Never good to see a good game go. The CCG model is on its way out though and the only game that can keep it successful is the paper crack addiction of Magic.

I agree with Big Show. Change the mechanics and make a better game based on the license. Less licensing fees (especially since some of it would have gone to FFG's direct competitor) and a more solid game design for the product.

Let it go into torpor and arise later as a newer, stronger leech.

Oh and if you do end up doing something with this license FFG, don't bother with WW's current Vampire background. The revamp (no pun intended) basically killed the roleplaying game. It was a piss poor mistake and most of the reason why such a large amount of interest was lost by their fan base for the roleplaying game.

Yes I imagine the issues on the license would make it tough for anyone to pick up unless WW forego anything they may want to make, or unless WotC pick it up again, both very doubtful at this time, but given time WW may soften their desires, the firm does seem to be struggling and down the road, smaller offers may appear to be more attractive.

I never played the original Masquarade so can not debate you on the finer points of the game, but I started playing nWoD (vamp/werewolf/LARP) a few years ago and very much enjoy the games in their present state.  However I love my books and with WW going digital I imagine that I won't be investing much in their future products as a player, and as a store owner I won't be investing (or promoting) anything in their products at all.

 

 



#6 Hellfury

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 02:09 PM

khunkwai said:

 

I never played the original Masquarade so can not debate you on the finer points of the game, but I started playing nWoD (vamp/werewolf/LARP) a few years ago and very much enjoy the games in their present state.  However I love my books and with WW going digital I imagine that I won't be investing much in their future products as a player, and as a store owner I won't be investing (or promoting) anything in their products at all.

 

 

 

 

Going digital will be the deathknell for WW. Same thing happened to Mongoose when they decided to close all support for previous games and dedicate effort into something new. They are still around but merely a shadow of what they once were.

Which frankly can squarely be blamed on the Vampire revamp. Speaking as one of many people who laughed at WW's attempt at a flagrant money grab when they decided to stop with the previous setting, we just stopped buying their products. Bought all the old 2nd edition stuff that we didnt have yet and are happy with that state.

I know you cant be the only one out there who likes the new vampire stuff, but you are quuite literally the first person I have heard say anything even remotely positive about the new setting. But considering you dont have prior experience with the setting, its understandable since there isnt a previous frame of reference.

No trying to debate it, just a better explanation of my stance regarding the changes so as not to appear as too much of a hater. I do like WW and their WoD settings, but they took it too far and lost their core constituents in the process. They would not have this hassle now of going digital, and the CCG would likely have lasted longer if they showed a bit more restraint.



#7 khunkwai

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 07:54 PM

Hellfury said:

Going digital will be the deathknell for WW. Same thing happened to Mongoose when they decided to close all support for previous games and dedicate effort into something new. They are still around but merely a shadow of what they once were.

Which frankly can squarely be blamed on the Vampire revamp. Speaking as one of many people who laughed at WW's attempt at a flagrant money grab when they decided to stop with the previous setting, we just stopped buying their products. Bought all the old 2nd edition stuff that we didnt have yet and are happy with that state.

I know you cant be the only one out there who likes the new vampire stuff, but you are quuite literally the first person I have heard say anything even remotely positive about the new setting. But considering you dont have prior experience with the setting, its understandable since there isnt a previous frame of reference.

No trying to debate it, just a better explanation of my stance regarding the changes so as not to appear as too much of a hater. I do like WW and their WoD settings, but they took it too far and lost their core constituents in the process. They would not have this hassle now of going digital, and the CCG would likely have lasted longer if they showed a bit more restraint.

Certainly all the old WoD players I know have never had a bad thing to say about that setting, though more than a few gripes with the new one.

I think it is a crying shame that they are dumping print, especially when firms like Arc Dream, Evil Hat, Pelgrane Press and others are supporting set ups like "Bits and Mortar" to offer free PDFs when players buy the real books. I agree with you that I believe we'll see White Wolf fade from the spot light now, a sad slow death for a firm that used to be on the bleeding edge of awesomely different RPGs

Any way , I guess us fans of VTES will need to wish hard for a miracle :-)  



#8 Toqtamish

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 04:02 AM

All digital, WTF, I think I just threw up in my mouth. Good riddance to White Wolf, this will be the final nail in that coffin, I have hated them for years since they tried to sue the makers of Underworld, the movie. 



#9 jhaelen

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 08:33 PM

Toqtamish said:

I have hated them for years since they tried to sue the makers of Underworld, the movie. 

They tried? So, they didn't win? Well, that's a pity, considering the very obvious and shameless 'borrowing' of the WoD setting. The movie also sucked, btw. It could have been way better if they had officially acknowledged and endorsed the WoD setting.



#10 Hellfury

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 08:09 PM

jhaelen said:

Toqtamish said:

 

I have hated them for years since they tried to sue the makers of Underworld, the movie. 

 

They tried? So, they didn't win? Well, that's a pity, considering the very obvious and shameless 'borrowing' of the WoD setting. The movie also sucked, btw. It could have been way better if they had officially acknowledged and endorsed the WoD setting.

 

 

+1

But then again, they borrowed heavily from other sources such as Anne Rice so WW couldn't get too uppity about it. But I do agree that the movie might have had more draw if it was made to be a world of darness movie, even though it most obviously is already. It just would have been nice for them to use familiar terms such as clan names. Kudos to Underworld for stealing the abomination idea.



#11 The_Big_Show

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 08:05 AM

If I remember right, the whole issue was settled out of court with both sides reaching an agreement.



#12 Toqtamish

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 12:58 PM

Either way it was a lame ass move on their part. As if they invented the idea of Werewolves and Vampires fighting. I see this most recent move as the final nail in their coffin, even with the help of the money from the company that they merged with, the one that makes Eve online.



#13 The_Big_Show

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 07:58 AM

Toqtamish said:

Either way it was a lame ass move on their part. As if they invented the idea of Werewolves and Vampires fighting. I see this most recent move as the final nail in their coffin, even with the help of the money from the company that they merged witht, the one that makes Eve online.

I agree and said as much when it first came to light.



#14 jhaelen

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 08:24 PM

bumpity-bump (maybe then the frigging board-software will finally stop showing this as unread...)



#15 Alanrey25j

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Posted 23 November 2010 - 10:01 AM

The original game, Jyhad/Vampire,  was excellent but i lost track after many many expansions. Loved the clan set ups, sabbat etc. With a back to basics storyline Vampire could make an incredible LCG. Praying to the powers that be.



#16 Shad0wdrag0n

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 06:44 PM

 I loved VTES, but got out of it around Camarilla Edition. I've been looking to get back into it, starting from around 3rd edition onwards, but have decided against it. Now, if there was an LCG version of VTES I would jump on it in a heartbeat. It would have to be a complete reboot however, with new rules and everything.



#17 JMS

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 07:53 PM

Our group is still playing VTES fortnightly, regardless of the cancellation. The player organisation is still producing rulings and is even gearing up for producing an online expansion. The game itself is great.

I find it interesting that someone said it was too combat heavy - combat is a notoriously weak strategy in tournaments, and, in my experience, most of the game is played off the table. This type of thing is what has drawn me toward the AGOT LCG - I've heard it is much the same in Melee mode: negotiation, bullying, outright deception...

That said, while I'm pretty happy to keep playing VTES as is, I would *love* to see it picked up in some capacity by anyone, especially in an LCG format.



#18 Doc9

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 02:49 AM

I played Jyhad when it first came out and really did enjoy the game. I wouldn't mind seeing this as an LCG.



#19 Diablerist

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 07:51 PM

Combat was only one of three main strategies available and by utilizing the expansion sets the possibilities and shear variety of possibilities opened up quite a lot more. I have been playing since 1991 and I am still coming up with new ideas on how to use old cards in combination with new ones and old ones alike. If you have an imagination and like to actually utilize it in interesting ways, VtES is an excellent CCG for just that. Hell, even if I don't win, I still have a blast coming up with ways to circumvent problems that my opponents throw at me.



#20 Diablerist

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 08:06 PM

As far as PDF only goes, that is actually quite wrong. The V:EKN (Vampire: Elder Kindred Network), basically a group of very devoted, organized and funded players got together and are getting new sets published. They could have had the first set out that they produced last December, but OneBookShelf, CCP and Hasbro are giving them a bit of trouble. How bad it is I do not know, but I figure they do not want to rock the boat too much and just want to get the new set out as soon as possible. Since they have been waiting though they have been working on the next set already and have been looking into print-on-demand options for old sets. Which would be great since when you can find some of the more sought after and older boxes they are selling for over 300.






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