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Question about Lily's Chen special ability.


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#1 Cubano

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:05 AM

Hello.

I have a question how to understand and play Lily's special ability, here is a quick reference to Arkham Wiki www.arkhamhorrorwiki.com/Lily_Chen

I see few ways of understanding it depending how do we understand focus - step by step or as a whole move.

To better visialize it let's assume that Lily's player upkeep have just begun. Lily has currently max. sanity at 5 and max stamina at 6, and to keep it simple she has currently 1 sanity and 1 stamina.

Which of the below options is correct:

1. By using focus player moves the sanity/stamina skill slider left then right so it ends at the same place. Lily has the same max sanity and stamina and still 1 sanity and 1 stamina as in general her skill did not increase.

2. As above but  she has now 2 sanity and 2stamina, because with first move her maximum sanity increased and therefore she gained 1 sanity, then by moving to the right her maximum stamina increased and she gained 1 stamina.

3. By using forus player moves the sanity/stamina skill slider to the right twice. Lily has now 2 sanity and 2 stamina.

4. As above but Lily ends with 3 sanity and 3 stamina.

Thanks for all opinions on this topic, as Lily is one of my favourite characters and as a game owned I need to always explain players how to play this character correctly.



#2 Julia

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 10:50 AM

Cubano said:

Which of the below options is correct:

1. By using focus player moves the sanity/stamina skill slider left then right so it ends at the same place. Lily has the same max sanity and stamina and still 1 sanity and 1 stamina as in general her skill did not increase.

2. As above but  she has now 2 sanity and 2stamina, because with first move her maximum sanity increased and therefore she gained 1 sanity, then by moving to the right her maximum stamina increased and she gained 1 stamina.

3. By using focus player moves the sanity/stamina skill slider to the right twice. Lily has now 2 sanity and 2 stamina.

4. As above but Lily ends with 3 sanity and 3 stamina.

Thanks for all opinions on this topic, as Lily is one of my favourite characters and as a game owned I need to always explain players how to play this character correctly.

1. Wrong. The key sentence is "every time that Lily...", so, even if the final situation is the same, you've changed things in the middle, so you have to gain Sanity and Stamina as per point 2.

2. This is right. The first movement makes the sanity to be increased, the second one the stamina

3. If the player moves the slider twice on the right, he gains 2 sanity, so after the Upkeep Phase, Lily has 3 Sanity and 1 Stamina

4. Wrong. You should have 3 / 3 only if able to move the slider twice on the right, and then twice on the left

Hope this helps!

PS: just a suggestion: this forum is for threads regarding Arkham Horror Investigator MIniatures! If you have questions about rules, feel free to post in the main section of the forum, you'll receive in a quicker and really exhausting way answers to all your questions :-)


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#3 Cubano

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 01:25 AM

I will do so with further questions.

Thanks for your clarification I also thought so, but my players thought otherways so we argued about it. Now I have some other votes in my favour.

 



#4 Hugues

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 04:11 AM

 Hi!

My first post here, i hope i won't make a big mistake. According to the link Cubano gives us, at the end of the page, there is an Errata, i'm quoting here:

"Errata

After moving her maximums slider, Lily Chen only restores her stamina/sanity based on its final position (she does not heal 1 point for each notch moved). Additionally, if one of her maximums increases by more than 1 at once, she only restores 1 point of that type."

Thus english isn't my native language, i could misunderstood some of your sentences, but doesn't this errata denied Julia's statement?



#5 jgt7771

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 05:20 AM

Hugues said:

Hi!

My first post here, i hope i won't make a big mistake. According to the link Cubano gives us, at the end of the page, there is an Errata, i'm quoting here:

"Errata

After moving her maximums slider, Lily Chen only restores her stamina/sanity based on its final position (she does not heal 1 point for each notch moved). Additionally, if one of her maximums increases by more than 1 at once, she only restores 1 point of that type."

Thus english isn't my native language, i could misunderstood some of your sentences, but doesn't this errata denied Julia's statement?

No mistake.  Julia is incorrect.  Sliders are not considered "moved" intermittently; wherever your sliders end up, THAT is the "move".  So wiggling your sliders back and forth doesn't do anything but tire out your arm if you put your slider right back where it started.

Cubano, in your example:

1. Correct.  Lily gains nothing.

2.  Incorrect.  This doesn't ever happen.

3. Not quite sure I'm following, but if Lily had 1/1 Current San/Stam, and moved from Max 5/6 to Max 7/4, she would gain 1 Sanity (for raising her Max Sanity from 5 to 7) and 0 Stamina (Max Stamina never raised from 6 to 4), resulting in 2/1 Current San/Stam.

4. Never.  Lily simply can never gain more than EITHER 1 Sanity OR 1 Stamina in a single Upkeep Phase.


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#6 mentorius

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 06:50 AM

Excellent clarifications @jgt7771!!



#7 Julia

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 01:09 PM

jgt7771 said:

 

No mistake.  Julia is incorrect.  Sliders are not considered "moved" intermittently; wherever your sliders end up, THAT is the "move".  So wiggling your sliders back and forth doesn't do anything but tire out your arm if you put your slider right back where it started.

Cubano, in your example:

1. Correct.  Lily gains nothing.

2.  Incorrect.  This doesn't ever happen.

3. Not quite sure I'm following, but if Lily had 1/1 Current San/Stam, and moved from Max 5/6 to Max 7/4, she would gain 1 Sanity (for raising her Max Sanity from 5 to 7) and 0 Stamina (Max Stamina never raised from 6 to 4), resulting in 2/1 Current San/Stam.

4. Never.  Lily simply can never gain more than EITHER 1 Sanity OR 1 Stamina in a single Upkeep Phase.

Thank you Jgt for your correction, and apologies to everybody for my mistake. I've always played it wrongly, ugh.
Just a question: is it an impression of mine, or the wording on the sheet isn't that clear? Jgt, I'm asking you because of your long time experience with the game and the forum, is it an official errata by Kevin?


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#8 jgt7771

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 03:03 AM

Julia said:

Just a question: is it an impression of mine, or the wording on the sheet isn't that clear? Jgt, I'm asking you because of your long time experience with the game and the forum, is it an official errata by Kevin?

Oh, it's not you.  When Kingsport came out, Lily's "Yin and Yang" and Charlie's "Connections" were beset upon by the guestimation hounds.  Interpretations were far and wide.  But I honestly can't remember how they were stopped, not specifically.  I suspect it was Kevin, since I think the issue was settled before the Proto-FAQ.  But I'm also pretty sure the Proto-FAQ will back it up.

It's not that Lily's wording isn't clear; it's that the operation of Upkeep sliders wasn't ever defined enough to easily allow a deviation like Lily.  If the sliders had ever been clarified that you can't "wiggle" them back and forth, Lily would never have been a problem.  But why even mention "wiggling" in the AH manual since there would have been zero call for it before Lily?  Backwards compatibility: eh, who needs it?


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#9 Julia

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 12:32 PM

jgt7771 said:

Oh, it's not you.  When Kingsport came out, Lily's "Yin and Yang" and Charlie's "Connections" were beset upon by the guestimation hounds.  Interpretations were far and wide.

Yep, Charlie's ability was another one I had tons troubles to understand. The first time I played with him, I thought that all the allies returned to the box because of the rising terror had to be given to him. But I thought something was wrong with this bizarre idea. Fortunately Tibs (or Avi? or you? can't remember, sorry) shed some light upon this mistery ::smiling::

And thank you for the detailed answer, now things are clear


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#10 Avi_dreader

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 05:11 AM

Julia said:

 

jgt7771 said:

 

Oh, it's not you.  When Kingsport came out, Lily's "Yin and Yang" and Charlie's "Connections" were beset upon by the guestimation hounds.  Interpretations were far and wide.

 

 

Yep, Charlie's ability was another one I had tons troubles to understand. The first time I played with him, I thought that all the allies returned to the box because of the rising terror had to be given to him. But I thought something was wrong with this bizarre idea. Fortunately Tibs (or Avi? or you? can't remember, sorry) shed some light upon this mistery ::smiling::

And thank you for the detailed answer, now things are clear

 

 

Reality is quickly lost in the forum fogs.  I doubt any of us remember either ;')

Heh...  The ironic thing is that Lily was originally intended to heal twice per turn.  They nerfed her because she would have been immune to Yig and semi-immune to Ithaqua (and other two damage AOs) in final combat (barring Epic Battle cards).  At least that was my understanding of the decision.  Also ;') had they left her as she is, she could have gotten Camilla's Ruby, Sarah Danforth, and Corinna Jones to be healing five points of stamina/sanity per turn.  Hee hee hee...






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