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Investigator's Location during final battle


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#1 ricedwlit

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 03:46 AM

Short form: the AH rules state during the final battle, investigators "may trade items among themselves as if they were in the same location".  This does not, however, state that they are in the same location.  So, what location are they in? 

 

Reason for question: In a recent game using the DH expansion, Carolyn was working on the "Sealing the Beast's Power" mission as Nyarlothotep was due to wake any moment. Turns out she wasn't fast enough: during the mythos phase of the same turn that she reached the last location listed on the mission (Ye Olde Magick Shoppe) Nyarlothotep woke up.  But then I started to wonder: during the upkeep of the first phase of the final battle, could Carolyn sacrifice one sanity and reduce Nyarlothotep's toughness?  The DH rules state "the investigator may only discard or spend the listed sacrifice if she is still in the listed area during the upkeep phase".  Carolyn was at Ye Olde Magick Shoppe before Nyarlothotep woke up, but what about when the battle starts?

 

Analysis: a closer reading of the effect on the card ("The Ancient One's combat rating is reduced by 2 if it awakens") led me to decide that since Nyarlothotep had already awoken that it didn't matter where Carolyn was, it was too late.   But this got me thinking about other missions and whether they would be useful during the final battle. And sure enough, I quickly located "The Light Of Reason" which grants 10 clues as it's effect.  So a similar situation could arise where an investigator is at the last location with necessary sacrifice when ancient one awakes...



#2 thorgrim

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 04:15 AM

As far as I can tell, you aren't really in a board location, you all move to whatever field or riverbank or rubble-strewn city block that the GOO is currently rampaging through, the locations on the board essentially no longer exist as far as game mechanics go. Also, you do not actually have a true Upkeep Phase. The rulebook says this:

"At the beginning of a round of combat with an Ancient One, the investigators may refresh their cards, use any character abilities, and adjust their skill sliders as though it were the Upkeep Phase."

This gives a very specific set of things you can do as if it were an Upkeep Phase, and while it could be argued that Missions/Tasks were added after these rules were created, I think the existing rule still holds true.



#3 ricedwlit

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 06:18 AM

Good point about the "Investigators Refresh" phase: it's not an upkeep, hence you cannot sacrifice. Just goes to show that you need to get the missions done before the GOO awakens. 



#4 ColtsFan76

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 11:09 AM

The investigators are all at the same location off board.  So they can trade items like they normal would.  They also get a full upkeep phase as has been answered in the FAQ.

But based on all this, the Mission would have failed since you did not complete it in the allotted time.  Once the GOO awakens, game over for missions.



#5 MrsGamura

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 10:45 PM

I always played your where you are on the board when the AO wakes up. So Daisy is in 2nd Area of Dreamlands when the AO wakes she's there during the final battle...so if she had that DH madness where she losses Sanity during the Upkeep in Another World that's though luck.

Fern can not heal people unless they where in the same Area when the AO wakes. etc



#6 thorgrim

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 12:13 AM

But how would the investigators be able to trade items if they were all in such vastly different places?



#7 MrsGamura

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 08:42 AM

thorgrim said:

But how would the investigators be able to trade items if they were all in such vastly different places?

Because the rules say you can.



#8 ColtsFan76

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 09:07 AM

MrsGamura said:

thorgrim said:

 

But how would the investigators be able to trade items if they were all in such vastly different places?

 

 

Because the rules say you can.

The rules also say you can only trade items if you are in the same location.



#9 MrsGamura

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 02:01 PM

ColtsFan76 said:

MrsGamura said:

 

thorgrim said:

 

But how would the investigators be able to trade items if they were all in such vastly different places?

 

 

Because the rules say you can.

 

 

The rules also say you can only trade items if you are in the same location.

They also say that during the final battle you can trade items AS IF YOU where in the same location.



#10 The Message

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 07:05 PM

MrsGamura said:

ColtsFan76 said:

 

MrsGamura said:

 

thorgrim said:

 

But how would the investigators be able to trade items if they were all in such vastly different places?

 

 

Because the rules say you can.

 

 

The rules also say you can only trade items if you are in the same location.

 

 

They also say that during the final battle you can trade items AS IF YOU where in the same location.

Hehe, ok, but how do you rationalize that thematically?

 



#11 thorgrim

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 07:36 PM

The Message said:

MrsGamura said:

 

ColtsFan76 said:

 

MrsGamura said:

 

thorgrim said:

 

But how would the investigators be able to trade items if they were all in such vastly different places?

 

 

Because the rules say you can.

 

 

The rules also say you can only trade items if you are in the same location.

 

 

They also say that during the final battle you can trade items AS IF YOU where in the same location.

 

 

Hehe, ok, but how do you rationalize that thematically?

 

 

 

"Err, excuse me mr. Cthulhu sir. Any chance you could pass this shotgun to Michael over there? Yeah, that's the guy, the one who just threw a handful of dynamite at you. Thanks so much."



#12 MrsGamura

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 08:02 PM

True thematically you sort of have to stretch it but nowhere does it say "all investigators teleport to the nearest area designated for fighting the AO".

I sort of view the AO just rampaging through the Town being attacked by a random investigator it happens to cross paths with.

Maybe they can trade with help from a Guardian, Bast for example has her cats carry items between investigators.

 

 

 

 

 



#13 mageith

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 05:39 AM

Mrs. Gamura: True thematically you sort of have to stretch it but nowhere does it say "all investigators teleport to the nearest area designated for fighting the AO". I sort of view the AO just rampaging through the Town being attacked by a random investigator it happens to cross paths with.

Mageith: This is interesting to me on what folks imagine happens during the final battle.  I never considered teleportation.  Nor did I consider that the GOO fought investigators individually (though I did make some variant rules for that).  I did consider all the investigators running, driving or flying to the location or that that GOO was so big that IT was just sort of everywhere.  But that doesn't answer the trading question unless they are throwing items to each other as the run toward the Other Worldly beastie.

Mrs. Gamura: Maybe they can trade with help from a Guardian, Bast for example has her cats carry items between investigators.

Mageith:   Has anyone ever told you have a lively imagation!  This is a good thing, of course.



#14 diablo666

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 12:59 PM

Our group plays it were you cannot trade during the final battle against the ancient one.

To us,it is a combat and there is no trading during combat and it just seems VERY silly to be able to trade during this time.This is just our groups opinion.

We do have an upkeep phase like the rules state,however.



#15 thorgrim

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 01:06 PM

diablo666 said:

Our group plays it were you cannot trade during the final battle against the ancient one.

To us,it is a combat and there is no trading during combat and it just seems VERY silly to be able to trade during this time.This is just our groups opinion.

We do have an upkeep phase like the rules state,however.

 

 

So, you have a phase where Vincent Lee or Carolyn Fern can run over, diagnose and heal another investigator, but they can't quickly palm off an item to each other?



#16 The Message

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 04:51 PM

I got it! The Epic Battle cards in Kingsport, don't some (most?) of them reference the investigators in the flavor text? They make it sound like, by whatever method, they all ended up at the same place for the final conflict.



#17 diablo666

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Posted 31 December 2008 - 03:49 AM

I dont think you should be able to do anything BUT adjust your sliders during the upkeep phase but thats just our groups opinion and that is how we play it so Vincent Lee and Carolyn Fern CANNOT heal during upkeep in the final battle against the Ancient One.

Also,there are items that say "discard if the ancient one awakens" and I believe the healing stone is one of them.

Just another opinion,here.



#18 thorgrim

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Posted 31 December 2008 - 03:54 AM

Yep, Healing Stone is one of them from memory, but the rulebook also states that during Final Combat upkeep that investigators can use special abilities.



#19 Kobu

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Posted 31 December 2008 - 04:21 AM

diablo666 said:

I dont think you should be able to do anything BUT adjust your sliders during the upkeep phase but thats just our groups opinion and that is how we play it so Vincent Lee and Carolyn Fern CANNOT heal during upkeep in the final battle against the Ancient One.

I'm not sure why you'd do that. You also wouldn't be able to refresh exhausted items.

Check the FAQ. You get a full upkeep duing the final battle.



#20 ColtsFan76

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Posted 31 December 2008 - 05:06 AM

The Message said:

I got it! The Epic Battle cards in Kingsport, don't some (most?) of them reference the investigators in the flavor text? They make it sound like, by whatever method, they all ended up at the same place for the final conflict.

Flavor text is always a weak argument because it is just there for ... flavor.  But yes, the text implies they are all near each other, not spread all over town.

It is just an oversite in the rules but the investigators should be considered in the same location in front of the GOO during the final battle.






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