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Too Many New Vampires


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#1 Wanderer999

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 05:14 AM

Rare as it was, our Dracula player today drew 3 New Vampires from the start of the game and easily won the game after about 1 day+ (maybe 9 or 10 turns max) I know tat it is NOT a lost cause but the odds simply stack too much against the players for it to even be a fun game. It's just a matter of time for Dracula to win.

 

My question:

When a Dracula player draws at least 3 New Vampire counters at the start of the game, do you guys create house rules to make it an automatic win for him or request for him to re-take the encounters(this is game integrity, if he chooses to remain quiet about it, nothing we can do there)



#2 Dam

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 11:07 PM

Did you note that maturing a Vamp clears the track of all encounters and locations except your current one, thus if you had 3 Vamps on the track and matured one of them, the other two (perhaps not the one you just placed) fizzle as the track is cleared? At least that's my recollection that when clearing track you can't mature those Vamps that are cleared. Thus, under normal circumstances, maturing the first Vamp takes umm, 6-7 turns (no encounter first Drac turn, then place and 5-6 moves to have it off). If you just placed a Vamp in the new location it isn't cleared, but again, another 6 turns to have it off and another 6 for the third, by which time you've gotten 2 VP off days passing I think.

Doesn't Hypnosis also reveal any Vamps on the track, if not their locations? Combined with Newspaper and deduction/guesswork, Hunters should be able to hunt down those Vamps without too many hassles.


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#3 Steve-O

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 01:48 AM

Can you choose to put the vamps in the catacombs until all three are out, or does maturing one also clear the cats?  I've never actually used the catacombs for anything, so my memory of how they work is a bit fuzzy.

As far as the original question, no I wouldn't call the game because Drac got a lucky draw.  Even if there is a way to mature all three in rapid succession, I would argue that Dracula is allowed to get lucky sometimes.  Play it out, maybe the hunters will find a way to save the day.  As long as Dracula keeps his tokens to himself it should still be an exciting game up to the point he wins. =)

In general, I'm not a big fan of calling quits because one player has a big advantage.  Firstly because if the rules allow for such an advantage then one would hope there are at least a few options for the other players to make a comeback, and secondly because the purpose of playing a game is to play the game.  Giving up because another player got lucky during setup reeks of poor sportsmanship to me, no offense intended.

 



#4 sepayne7l

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 09:41 AM

Dam is right. Pulling 3 and dropping 3 new vampires in your trail will usually net you just one because of the trail clearing.  In response to Steve-O, I'm pretty sure you can't put them in the catacombs. I think there are specific ones that aren't allowed to be put in there. Probably because the playtesters came across the OPs situation.



#5 DaveD

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 01:59 AM

You can put Vampires in the catacombs, but it wouldn't help in this case and I can't imagine why you would want to. Encounters can only be put in the catacombs when the location they are on drops off the trail at the same time they would mature, so in the case of a Vampire you would wnat to mature it rather than putting it in the catacombs.

In addition encounters that are in the catacombs can't then be matured later.



#6 Julia

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 01:29 AM

Steve-O said:

does maturing one also clear the cats?

Catacombs are not cleared when encounters are matured

 


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#7 Steve-O

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 01:32 AM

DaveD said:

You can put Vampires in the catacombs, but it wouldn't help in this case and I can't imagine why you would want to. Encounters can only be put in the catacombs when the location they are on drops off the trail at the same time they would mature, so in the case of a Vampire you would wnat to mature it rather than putting it in the catacombs.

In addition encounters that are in the catacombs can't then be matured later.

Well, I was thinking if the cats don't clear you could save them up and mature them later, when there aren't any more on the trail.  But if you can't mature them int he cats, then that's the end of that idea.  Like I said, I don't think I've ever bothered putting a card in the cats myself, likely because there's no point.



#8 Julia

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 09:41 AM

Steve-O said:

Well, I was thinking if the cats don't clear you could save them up and mature them later, when there aren't any more on the trail.  But if you can't mature them int he cats, then that's the end of that idea.  Like I said, I don't think I've ever bothered putting a card in the cats myself, likely because there's no point.

Using catacombs could be quite rare, but in certain cases I found it very useful. There are some key cities on the map (Munich or Vienna, for example). Hunters usually block these cities with Heavenly hosts; Dracula can also use these location to harm / slow down Hunters a lot. Stay in Munich. Place a Fog encounter there. Next round move to Vienna. Do the same (or use Bats). If you're lucky enough to move both cards in the catacombs, it's a great thing for you. Let's say you're trying to reach the Eastern Europe with Hunters very close to you: this kind of situation can give you a couple of vital extra round, and you can prepare this "trap" very early and then activate it very late in the game, if you move wisely in the mean time.

You can do the same with many other cities, even in central Europe, to create some quiet island to rest for a while


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#9 Dam

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 09:53 AM

Julia said:

to create some quiet island to rest for a while

Couldn't you just go to England or Ireland ? Oh, wait, you said quiet.


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#10 Julia

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 12:48 PM

Dam said:

Couldn't you just go to England or Ireland ? Oh, wait, you said quiet.

 


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#11 Baenre

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 04:39 PM

Wanderer999 said:

Rare as it was, our Dracula player today drew 3 New Vampires from the start of the game and easily won the game after about 1 day+ (maybe 9 or 10 turns max) I know tat it is NOT a lost cause but the odds simply stack too much against the players for it to even be a fun game. It's just a matter of time for Dracula to win.

 

My question:

When a Dracula player draws at least 3 New Vampire counters at the start of the game, do you guys create house rules to make it an automatic win for him or request for him to re-take the encounters(this is game integrity, if he chooses to remain quiet about it, nothing we can do there)

 

Sounds like you played it wrong to me.  Don't get discouraged by something like this happening.  Now that you know he can't do that you can go back and play again and know it's impossible for him to do it to you again.



#12 RedShark92

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 01:56 AM

Steve-O said:

Well, I was thinking if the cats don't clear you could save them up and mature them later, when there aren't any more on the trail.  But if you can't mature them int he cats, then that's the end of that idea.  Like I said, I don't think I've ever bothered putting a card in the cats myself, likely because there's no point.

Catacombs don’t clear, but they also never mature, so it’ll usually be a waste to put a New Vampire there. The only way you’ll get any points out of them at that point is if a Hunter goes there at night and you get the Bite result on the die roll.

There may be some odd situations where it is worthwhile, but they’re going to be pretty rare.

One I could think of is if the trail had a full six cards, the last two cities (5th and 6th cards) on the trail had New Vampires AND the Hunters were nowhere near the location corresponding to the 5th location.

In that case, it might be worth catacombing the 6th location:

If you mature it, you’ll get your 2 points and you’ll lose the New Vampire on the 5th location as the trail clears.

If you catacomb it, you’ll have a small chance of still getting points out of it (if a Hunter crosses it at Night and gets bitten) and will still have a good shot at maturing the one right after it.

As others have said the Catacombs can be useful for blocking up key locations and even more so because you can then reinforce those locations by putting an extra encounter token on them (which also slightly increases your chances of drawing another New Vampire).

 






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