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Counterattack and deathblow


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#1 Pascalahad

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 09:40 PM

I already have a rule question :


Is it possible to combine a counterattack and a deathblow in the same turn ?
 

The Deathblow text says the winner can do a deathblow based on the card he played. Does the counterattack cards count ? Which symbol is relevant ? The one from the first card played, the one from the additional cards, the counterattack symbol ?
 



#2 air show

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 11:20 PM

rules say that the round winner could use the deathblow, so if you succesfully counterattack  you win the round and you're allowed to use the deathblow, IMO.

I assume (I've understand this way) that every tipe of combat cards have the same counter (ex: all ranged combat cards can counter every melee attack comb. card, melee combat cards can counter magic attack comb. cards AND magic attack comb. cards can counter Ranged combat cards.).

not sure about Power cards, but probably is the same.

But when  you counterattack you can use other cards you have in your hand OF THE SAME TYPE (melee, ranged,magic).  So if you counter a melee attack with 1,2,3 or 4 cards, I think they will be all Ranged attack cards. So if the counter works and you win the round, and there are ranged combat cards in the combat stack, you can also use the deatblow.

WOW!!! great combat system, IMO!

 

 



#3 SPBTooL

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 07:38 PM

 I'm not so sure that counter attacks work for Deathblow, The rules state:

"the winner of the round takes all of the cards in the combat stack with the same attack type as the attack type of the card he played"

The Deathblow section always refers to a singular card played. There is also this description about the discard pile:

"The loser of that round places his Combat card in the combat stack,
which represents the maneuvering of the combatants to set up a more
powerful strike.
"



#4 DoomTurtle

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 02:21 AM

All ranged attacks only counter melee, all melee attacks only counter magic, and all magic attack only counter ranged. This is how they implemented the rock-paper-scissors mechanic from the original. So if the monster has a level 3 melee attack, and you play a level one ranged attack, you can counterattack his melee card. Since only ranged attacks can counter melee attacks, all your cards for that round will have the same symbol.

So I definitely agree that a counterattack can cause a deathblow. The rules say "the winner of the round", and counterattacking can make you the winner of the round. And since all symbols of the counterattack are the same, there is no question about which symbol from the combat stack is used. Also, the counterattack isn't one attack that uses multiple cards, each card is a separate attack that you can stop or continue until you have a higher total value.  And that last counterattack played is still a single card, which would be the card that causes the deathblow.
 



#5 SPBTooL

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 08:56 AM

If all attack types have the same counters, then I agree. This line in the rules made it sound as though that may not always be the case:

"the player simply plays cards from his hand with a counterattack icon that matches his opponent’s attack type"

While it does fit if the attack counters are always the same, it seems like a strange wording it there is no variation. The pictures in the rules also show no variation other than 4s as they have no counter at all.



#6 monkeyjammer67

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 07:14 PM

The way I have been playing deathblows is when only a single card each is played for the round, when there is no option to counter.

Such as a melee 2 VS. a melee 3. The melee 2 cannot counter melee so it cannot counterattack, and the melee 3 would cause a deathblow.

In the rule book the instance shown is just single cards. I think if the rules intended for deathblows and counters to happen in the same round, it would have been made quite clear, as both these tactics can be devastating alone.

I can see both sides of the rules interpretations though. However, I'll stick to this way as it adds to the length of the fights a bit which I like.



#7 MilkFromACow

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 03:26 AM

I played Dungeon Quest at Gen Con, and here is how it worked.

You can use Deathblows in additions to a Counterattack.

1. You both lay your hidden cards down and reveal.

2. Higher number wins, unless the loser has an appropriate counter attack.

3. Loser can play counter attack cards from their hand to raise ther attack value.  All counter attack cards would be the same symbol, since it is rock/paper/scissors.   If they can surpass your attack value, they now win.  If it's a tie, all cards go to combat pile.

4. The winner of the round can do the Death Blow.  This would be all cards from the combat stack of the orignal card played.  So, if I played a ranged card intially, then I would grab all the ranged cards from the combat stack for a Death Blow.  This blow may not kill the monster/player, but it could.  Don't forget that all your counter attack cards count as one wound as well.  This is why it is nice to play small counter attack cards first if you have multiples, to increase your total wounds to another character or monster.

 

 

 



#8 keltheos

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 12:11 PM

 MFAC, that's a pretty succinct way to explain how combat works, I'm stealing it for my teaching. I found the counterattack rule writing hard to muddle through/explain and this sequencing for some reason has it making more sense. I think it was the bit about 'if the CA symbol matches' when we all know that all of one color counters all of another.



#9 Pascalahad

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 01:49 AM

Kudos, MilFromA Cow, you should have written the rule book !

So the answer was : the symbol that counts for Deathblows is the attack symbol, not the counterattack one.

Thanks.



#10 DoomTurtle

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 03:52 AM

Pascalahad said:

Kudos, MilFromA Cow, you should have written the rule book !

So the answer was : the symbol that counts for Deathblows is the attack symbol, not the counterattack one.

Thanks.

Both of those symbols will be the same. the attack symbol used by the losing player will counterattack with the exact same symbol.  If a skeleton plays a Melee 3, and the counterattack for Melee is Ranged, and the player plays a Ranged 1, then they get to counterattack.  Since a Melee can only be counterattacked by Range, then the counterattacking player has to keep using Range attacks.  So the deathblow will use Range.  Since it's the only symbol that was used that round by that player.



#11 air show

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 08:06 AM

DoomTurtle said:

 

Both of those symbols will be the same. the attack symbol used by the losing player will counterattack with the exact same symbol.  If a skeleton plays a Melee 3, and the counterattack for Melee is Ranged, and the player plays a Ranged 1, then they get to counterattack.  Since a Melee can only be counterattacked by Range, then the counterattacking player has to keep using Range attacks.  So the deathblow will use Range.  Since it's the only symbol that was used that round by that player.

Absolutely right.



#12 pabulac

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 09:43 AM

SPBTooL said:

If all attack types have the same counters, then I agree. This line in the rules made it sound as though that may not always be the case:

"the player simply plays cards from his hand with a counterattack icon that matches his opponent’s attack type"

While it does fit if the attack counters are always the same, it seems like a strange wording it there is no variation. The pictures in the rules also show no variation other than 4s as they have no counter at all.

I think it is written in this way because not all cards have CA. As I have noticed it in rules the big value cards do not have CA, so you can not play them although they might be the same attack type you are using this round.

Am I right?

Oh, I want that game now! :)



#13 air show

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 12:25 PM

pabulac said:

 

 

I think it is written in this way because not all cards have CA. As I have noticed it in rules the big value cards do not have CA, so you can not play them although they might be the same attack type you are using this round.

 

 

it seems only combat cards of value "4" haven't the counter icon, but it's correct (4 is the max attack value, so it's impossible to start a counter with it).

so if you play at the combat round's start a "4"  attack card, there are 3 possibilities_

1) your opponent uses an attack card with lower value than yours (from 1 to 3) and with the wrong counter icon (ex. you use a 4 melee attack, your opponent uses a 3 magic attack, that can counter only ranged att, not melee) so you win the round

2) your opponent uses an attack card with the same value (4), having a stand off. if both use a 4 attack card, none can counter (if is true that all combat cards 4 have not the counter icon as seems).note that if the stand off happens with lower attack values, it is possible to counter (rules, pag. 18)

3) your opponent uses an attack card with lower value than yours (from 1 to 3) with the right counter icon (ex. you use a 4 melee attack, your opponent uses a 1.2 or 3 ranged attack, perfect against melee). if he can (and decides to) counter, he has to play more ranged attack cards to overcome your 4 (he is able to do it? he win the round! no way to overcome your 4?if even with the counter his total attack value is smaller than your he loses, otherwise if he reach a total of 4 a stand off happens.

It should be right but I cannot be sure 100% until the game is in my hands. i can wait no more!!!






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