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Placing Strongholds


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#1 Sythorn

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:53 AM

I just played this game for the first time, but ran into a rule that really has me scratching my head.  The manual states that during setup "a stronghold may be placed in any Kingdom area that does not contain an unrazed city or another Baron’s Stronghold."  Doesn't this mean that each Baron must place their stronghold in a hex containing a razed city?  The problem is that there aren't enough razed cities at the beginning of the game for each Baron to place his stronghold.

I assumed this was a typo and fully expected to have it clarified in the errata/faq, but found no such clarification.  So my question is how does initial stronghold placement work?  Are Barons allowed to place there stronghold on areas with a plastic city, but then remove the city after deciding to place their stronghold?  Does this then mean that stronghold always have a base strength of 400 - plus/minus any armies, casualties, or breaches it sustains, of course - because the city has been razed to make way for the stronghold?



#2 Aussie_Digger

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 01:36 AM

In the rules it says you cant place it where there is an unrazed city or stronghold so that means you can place it in any hex that is razed or clear so there are plenty of places to put it (remember it states that you cant on unrazed or another barons stronghold so everywhere else is fair game)
 



#3 Aussie_Digger

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 01:39 AM

also remember that razed cities at the start of the game are treated as clear hexes (eg the strength of the city and taxes dont play any part)



#4 Sythorn

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 11:50 AM

Aussie_Digger said:

In the rules it says you cant place it where there is an unrazed city or stronghold so that means you can place it in any hex that is razed or clear so there are plenty of places to put it (remember it states that you cant on unrazed or another barons stronghold so everywhere else is fair game)
 

If this is the case then I don't think I understand the rules.  The book says that in a 6 player game no cities start off razed.  Also, the set up instructions tell you to place plastic cities on unrazed cities before Barons place their strongholds.

So if placing your stronghold happens after placing plastic city pieces on cities that are not razed, and there are no razed cities during set up in a 6 player game, there is technically no legal spot to place a stronghold.

Clearly this isn't a problem for anyone else since it hasn't been mentioned on the forums and there is nothing about it in the Errata or FAQ.  What am I missing?



#5 Aussie_Digger

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 01:27 AM

Yes you are correct in a 6 player game all the cities are placed on the map so there are no razed cities but there are also clear hexes on the map where you are able to place strongholds. So have a look at the board and the hexes on the map that do not have any city names but are clear, are legal for placing strongholds (eg take a look at the city "Monz" on the board, you are unable to place a stronghold on this hex but it is legal to place it on the hex to ther left or right and also either one below as they are clear of anything. The rules only state 2 conditions where strongholds can not be placed so if the hex dose not meet these conditions then a stronghold can be placed.



#6 Sythorn

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 08:09 PM

Oh, I get it now.  I just assumed you couldn't place stronghold on empty hexes since the stronghold tokens fit perfect onto the city squares and the book mentioned building them over unrazed cities.  Now I feel somewhat foolish for assuming that even though the manual never spoke of it. 

 

Thanks for the help Aussie. 



#7 Aussie_Digger

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 09:42 PM

No problems, I think the rule isnt well worded, I had to read it a couple of times to get the meaning of it. IT should maybe read something like ( a stronghold can be placed on any hex as long as another stronghold isnt present and a city miniture dose not occupy the hex) 






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