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#1 FFGHata

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 05:03 AM

 Hello Warhammer: Invasion fans!

I am currently working on an update to the FAQ. If you have any rules questions that you feel aren't answered by the current FAQ, please add them to this thread.

 

Best,

James Hata



#2 Entropy42

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 05:15 AM

There are a lot of questions you or Nate answered that are listed out in this thread, which is just a slightly updated version of this thread on the FFG forums.  Those are both a good compilation of things people seemed to be unsure about.

Glad to hear a new FAQ is in the works though.

I searched around for a few of the most contested topics I could find:

  1. How Blessings of Tzeentch works.
  2. Whether or not you can play support cards on to an opponents unit.  The rulebook says no, but an email ruling on Warp Lightning Cannon said you can.  Also, Hexes suck balls if you can't.
  3. Whether Your Will is Mine lasts only until end of turn, and a general clarification on how effects not stated as "until end of turn" work.  i.e. Forced March doesn't say the effect is permanent and there is an email ruling saying "Unless otherwise stated, card effects will end at the end of the turn. This means that Blessing of Valaya's effect will end at the end of the turn" 
  4. Multiplayer rules.
  5. When Altar of Khaine must be triggered. Is it after damage is applied?  Does the unit ever enter the discard pile?
  6. Glittering Tower, Initiate of Saphery, and multiple units being healed (and/or multiple Towers and Initiates).  I think there is an understanding of how this works on the forums now, but the FAQ still seems to confuse people.
  7. How much damage Warrior Priests must be assigned before damage can be assigned to the capital.  The FAQ says "enough to destroy" but later rules questions have said "enough to destroy including cancellation effects" and their damage redirection is not a cancellation effect.
  8. Further clarification of when a unit is considered to "have dealt" damage and when a unit is consider to have "been dealt" damage.  The FAQ already talks about this, but it still seems to confuse people. 
  9. Similarly, the differences between "moved" and "redirected" damage, who is the source of the damage, who deals the damage, etc.  This will be even more of a confusion when the Savage keyword is in circulation.
  10. General clarification of redirected damage and the associated timing issues.  In the current set Blessing of Valaya is the only card (I could find) that says "next 2 damage dealt to one target unit are redirected" (the recently previewed Temple Guard also uses this wording) All other redirection cards say "redirect the damage assigned".
  11. Clarification of the timing for The Greatswords.  It is clear from the FAQ they give themselves a power when entering play, but the timing of how their effect can already be in play in waiting to trigger, and yet also trigger from the card itself entering play, is not clear.  A better understanding of how this works will help players evaluate other similar situations.

 



#3 CovertDad

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 05:26 AM

A specific, codified answer to whether Battlemasters of Hoeth absorb ALL damage while defending in the battlefield, or only enough to kill them before damage-reduction effects are applied would be greatly appreciated.



#4 Rhelik

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 12:04 AM

I've seen the question on healing around here and it came up in our group.  Can you heal a unit that has no damage on it so as to trigger other game effects that are based off healing.  Or does a unit have to have damage to receive a healing effect.

 

-Bernie



#5 Rhelik

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 12:27 AM

More questions I've noticed online or have seen at our venue.

 

A. If you attach a support card on an opponent's card.
     1.   Who controls the card? 
     2.   Who gets the loyalty symbol?

 

B.  You attach a support card to one of your units and your opponent gains control of the the unit.
     1.  Who has control of the attachment?
     2.   If your opponent doesn't gain control of the attachment does it stay attached?
     3.   If your opponent doesn't gain control of the attachment when you can you use the attachment.  Such as Sadistic Mutation?

 

 

-Bernie



#6 Clamatius

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 01:21 PM

 1 more occurred to me this morning.

Is the ability on Cloud of Flies an Action?



#7 Rhelik

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 08:36 AM

This one is about stack resolution.

 

Set-up.   Both players have 3 skaven out, each with Deathmaster Sniktch.

Player A: Corrupts his Sniktch declaring his opponent's Deathmaster as the target.

Player B: Corrupts his Sniktch adding him to the top of the stack, and declares his opponent's Deathmaster the target.

 

How does this resolve?

Does B destroy A, and then A not resolve because he is destroyed?

Does B destroy A, and then A destroy B because.  If so why?

Or some other resolution, and why?

 

Thank you,

-Bernie



#8 dutpotd

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 09:23 AM

Morvael's Legacy and similarily worded cards that put units into play (and allow the player to choose the zone), the below being the text on Morvael's:

Play only during your turn. ACTION: Put into play all units in your discard pile. (You choose which zone each unit enters.)

Can you choose to put the units into your opponent's zones? Granted the opponent's zones are in play zones.  Assuming restrictions are still followed, i.e. 'this zone only' cards are put into the corresponding opponent's zones.

Thank you,

-  dutpotd - Garett



#9 Clamatius

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 10:33 AM

Rhelik said:

This one is about stack resolution.

 

Set-up.   Both players have 3 skaven out, each with Deathmaster Sniktch.

Player A: Corrupts his Sniktch declaring his opponent's Deathmaster as the target.

Player B: Corrupts his Sniktch adding him to the top of the stack, and declares his opponent's Deathmaster the target.

 

How does this resolve?

Does B destroy A, and then A not resolve because he is destroyed?

Does B destroy A, and then A destroy B because.  If so why?

Or some other resolution, and why?

FYI, this has already been answered, although it's not in the official FAQ.  Removing the source of the effect does not cancel the effect.  However, Deathmaster is a bit of a special case because his targeting is based on the number of Skaven in play.  It checks the legality of the target on both declaration and resolution.  So in your example:

Player B's Deathmaster effect destroys A's Deathmaster.  Then A's Deathmaster effect resolves, but now there aren't enough Skaven in play to kill B's Deathmaster, so the effect fizzles.  If there was 1 more Skaven in play then both Deathmasters would be destroyed.



#10 Wytefang

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 01:24 PM

As is frequently and consistently the case, the newest BP has led to new rules questions. Here's one of mine, with more to follow, I'd imagine:

Helbane's Raiders - Dark Elf Unit - 4R, 2L, 2P, 2HP - "Elite. Warrior. ACTION: When an opponent discards one or more cards from his hand, deal 1 damage to target unit."

Does your opponent have to be the one who does the discarding or can this work in conjunction with my usage of the Scout keyword power??
 

The reason I ask is that Scout states that the owner of the Scouting card does the random drawing and discarding and in that regard, would not then trigger Helbane's Raider's power since it specifically refers to your opponent needing to be the one who does the discarding from his or her hand.



#11 Wytefang

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 01:39 PM

Another interesting one involves these two cards: 

Altar of Khaine - "Kingdom. Action: If one of your units would be destroyed, you may pay 1 resource to instead return it to your hand."

Sack Tor Aendris - "Quest. Any unit questing here may attack as though it were in your battlefield. Quest. You may spend resources on this quest to pay for cards and effects. Quest. Forced: At the end of any turn in which the questing unit participated in an attack, place a resource token on this card."

 

So if I kill off (doesn't matter how for purposes of this discussion, really) the unit sitting on his Dark Elf Quest "Sack Tor Aendris," and there was a single resource on that Quest but he had no other resources, could he use that particular resource to power the effect on Altar of Khaine??  Initially I didn't think so due to the wording of how Quests work - "once a unit is removed from a Quest, all resource tokens associated with that Quest are removed."  BUT Altar of Khaine's wording seems to imply that it is meant to prevent the removal of the unit (of course that's what it's supposed to do) - so the words "IF" and "WOULD BE DESTROYED" seem to imply an interruption of sorts  to the normal Resource removal process used when a Questing Unit is killed or removed off of a Quest card.



#12 Keggy

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 10:14 PM

Wytefang said:

Another interesting one involves these two cards: 

Altar of Khaine - "Kingdom. Action: If one of your units would be destroyed, you may pay 1 resource to instead return it to your hand."

Sack Tor Aendris - "Quest. Any unit questing here may attack as though it were in your battlefield. Quest. You may spend resources on this quest to pay for cards and effects. Quest. Forced: At the end of any turn in which the questing unit participated in an attack, place a resource token on this card."

 

So if I kill off (doesn't matter how for purposes of this discussion, really) the unit sitting on his Dark Elf Quest "Sack Tor Aendris," and there was a single resource on that Quest but he had no other resources, could he use that particular resource to power the effect on Altar of Khaine??  Initially I didn't think so due to the wording of how Quests work - "once a unit is removed from a Quest, all resource tokens associated with that Quest are removed."  BUT Altar of Khaine's wording seems to imply that it is meant to prevent the removal of the unit (of course that's what it's supposed to do) - so the words "IF" and "WOULD BE DESTROYED" seem to imply an interruption of sorts  to the normal Resource removal process used when a Questing Unit is killed or removed off of a Quest card.

I am interested in this.  I had a similar issue arise tonight.



#13 Periculum

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 07:15 AM

I would be interested in seeing a few in game phrases compared to each other or just made to mean the same thing.

Does "look at" and "search" mean the same thing in this game? For instance, would a Scout Camp let me look at an extra card when using Caradryan of Plague Monk to look at my own deck?

Do Har Ganeth and Deathmaster work the same? Are they both looking at printed HP or HP minus wounds (I know that was clarified already for deathmaster) or do they work differently?



#14 Artemus Maximus

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 02:51 PM

asked but never officially answered:

Sack Tor Aendris. "Quest. Any unit questing here may attack as though it were in your battlefield."

Does this mean that the questing unit is actually considered to be included in the set of 'attacking battlefield units', essentially being affected by effects concerning the Battlefield Zone? E.g., does Savage Gors deal +2 dmg if you have 2+ devlopments in your battlefield zone while attacking via this quest? Is a unit questing here affected by a Brutal Offering played during Battlefield Phase? If so, does this temporary state also extend to units questing on Protect the Empire, Defend Tor Aendris, or Dragonslayer & Greyseer Thanquol ?  (although all of which do not say "...as though it were in [battlefield / attacked zone]").

OR, is it simply meant that, as an exception, a unit on this quest can be declared as an attacker while on that quest during the battlefield phase, just like Dragonslayer can be declared as an attacker from the Quest Zone (but for all other purposes is considered still to be in the Quest zone)?



#15 f7eleven

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 03:03 AM

 With Order In Chaos I can choose which order they go back onto my deck, right?  Just as with Troll Vomit, I can choose how my destroyed units are ordered when they go to the discard pile, right?



#16 Overseer Lazarus

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 09:03 PM

How do, James? I want to tell you we appreciate you taking this on. It'd be easier on you in the future to tackle this stuff in digestible chunks - after each product release perhaps - but it's fantastic that you're hitting it now. Cheers to ya.

1. What actions are actions? Iron Discipline says to cancel an action unless additional payment is made. Can I hit my opponent's unit as he gives it an attachment? Can I stop his High Elf from healing a comrade? Can I stop his Vigilant Elector from attaching to one of my units?

2. When a Quest says to put a counter on it at the end of a turn that something happened (defended this zone, attacked from this zone, etc.), will the counter be placed if the unit leaves before the end of the turn? The rules say to remove counters from a quest from which a unit left play, but doesn't prevent new ones from being placed in the unit's absence. The unit did, after all, do what the quest required during that turn. I can see both views.

3. What is the complete timing structure of playing a card from hand? Specifically, where is the card between being in hand and being in play? Is it out of play? Is it in the "being played" zone? Is it still in hand until the instant that it's in play? If I play a unit and my opp. plays Asuryan's Cleansing, where is the unit while we untangle any effect chain? Can it be discarded? Can it be sacrificed? It would have to be IN hand or IN play for either of those scenarios.

4. What happens to a card being played when the playing conditions change from legal to illegal after the payment but before the resolution? Return it to hand? Discard it? I play, for example, a Hero to a zone with no Heroes in it. My opp. 'Rip Dere 'Eads Off' one of my developments which, lo and behold, happens to be a Hero. What becomes of the incoming Hero?

5. The rulebook says that only the number in the upper left corner of a card is the cost. But some cards instruct us to do other things as well. Are these things costs, too? And, if so, how can we tell? Are all card requirements costs? Corrupting, searching cards, putting a damage counter on something? How do we know if it's an additional cost or just an effect of the playing? "Play this card and something gets corrupted, if able" vs. "You cannot play this card if you do not corrupt something". 



#17 LovingAngel

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 06:58 AM

I looked through my W:I cards and wrote down what I thought could be problematic:

General rules:

No cards in the deck: When does the game check if one has no cards in the deck? At any time or just when you draw cards?
For example, if I drew my last card, do I lose immediately or do I lose the next time I have to draw a card?

Healing: How does healing damage work? Does the target unit/capital have to have damage tokens on it to be healed?

Indirect Damage: What is it? Where can it be applied to? The text in the FAQ does not help as much as it should.
It should completely explain what a player has to do if he suffers indirect damage (i.e. for each point of damage received,
place one damage token on a unit you control or an un-burned section of your capital).

Trigger conditions:
- When do abilities trigger with the condition 'When this/a unit is destroyed'? Before or after the unit enters the discard pile?
- The trigger condition 'When your turn ends' (for example on Thyrus Gorman) seems to indicate that abilities can be triggered during the 'End of Turn'-phase. As such would it allow players to play actions in response to such abilities during the 'End of Turn'-Phase or even start a stack on there own?
- How many times can a trigger be triggered at the same time by different cards? For example: A player has 2 Glittering Towers, 2 undamaged Initiates of Saphery, 2 undamaged units, and 3 damaged units with 2 damage tokens each in play. How many damage is s/he able to deal through his Glittering towers at the beginning of his turn? Please explain in detail.

Card effects: What is included in the term 'card effect'? (for example on King Khazador)

Assigning damage in combat: The old rules for the assign damage phase were clear in respect to how much damage one has to assign to the defending units before one can assign damage to the capital section, the new rules, however, are not. Does the attacking player have to anticipate abilities like Counterstrike or the 'Cancel all damage'-ability of the Sword Masters of Hoeth or the 'Cancel all but one damage'-ability of the Dragonmage and assign more damage than the actual hit points on the units in question?

Individual cards:

Banna of da red sunz: Do you still receive all the resources or just the original amount of resources - 1 resource?

Blessing of Tzenntch: This card has really bad wording. The current wording allows for the interpretation that the player may chose the units from which he has to chose randomly.

Choppa: What happens if the attached unit is moved to another zone?

Dark Riders: What does "any unit" mean? Just one or all?

Lokhir Fellheart: What does "any battlefield" mean? Just in one or in all?

Rune of Fortitude: Is the effect only cancelable for all units together or on a unit by unit basis? For example: if the attacking player can only pay the resource for some of his attacking units, do still all of his units receive -1 power or do only these units receive -1 power that the player was not able to pay one resource for?

Slaanesh's Domination: What does "any tactics" mean? Just one or all tactics revealed?

Scout Camp: What does this card do?



#18 Keggy

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 10:09 PM

LovingAngel said:

Individual cards:

Banna of da red sunz: Do you still receive all the resources or just the original amount of resources - 1 resource?

Choppa: What happens if the attached unit is moved to another zone?

Lokhir Fellheart: What does "any battlefield" mean? Just in one or in all?

Rune of Fortitude: Is the effect only cancelable for all units together or on a unit by unit basis? For example: if the attacking player can only pay the resource for some of his attacking units, do still all of his units receive -1 power or do only these units receive -1 power that the player was not able to pay one resource for?

Slaanesh's Domination: What does "any tactics" mean? Just one or all tactics revealed?

Scout Camp: What does this card do?

My answers on a few of your questions (but I don't work for FFG so it isn't official):

Banna of da red sunz -  you lose your 7th resource, and the opponent gets to place one damage on a target unit or capital zone of his choice.  If you would gain 8 resources during your kingdom phase, you would instead gain 7 and your opponent would place one damage on a unit or capital zone of his choice.

Choppa - you have to attach it to a unit in your battlefield.  if the unit moves somewhere else, the choppa stays with it.

Lokhir Fellheart - "any battlefield" means one battlefield of your choice, should you be playing against more than one opponent.

Rune of fortitude - attacker must pay one resource for each unit he wants to not lose one power.  4 units = 4 resources.  If you only have three resources and want to attack with 4 units, one of them will have one less power.

Slaanesh's Domination - draw three cards from opponents hand; if any of the three revealed are tactics, you can play them for free.  If you draw three tactics, you could potentially play all three of them.

Scout Camp - some cards let you search the top X many cards of your deck for a particular card/cards.  Scout camp lets you search one additional card while doing so.  If you play a tactic that lets you search the top 5 cards of your deck, you can instead search the top 6 cards if you have a scout camp in play.

 



#19 Entropy42

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 03:20 AM

While those are all helpful answers, I think the purpose of this thread is just to list questions which are not clarified well enough by the rulebook/FAQ itself.  For example, I listed about 10 things, and I know the answer to most of them and can cite rules clarification emails for them, but they are things which I felt were unclear (based on the official published rules/FAQ), or which are frequently asked about.



#20 Martin_fr

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 02:48 AM

General Rules :

I would like a lot more details about how Attachments cards are to be used in the game (2 lines indicating that if the attached cards lerave play so does the attachment is a bit short IMO) :

- are they placed beneath their "attaching" card ? or do they stay in whatever zone you put them in play to ?

- may you play an attachment card from your hand with no legal "attaching" target in play ? And when do you "attach to ..." constant effect is evaluated ?

- do the attachment cards "follow" their attaching cards (asked in a previous message in this thread) ?

For now I'm playing those cards just like I was used to play "Enchant" card in a famous CCG, because it seems consistant with WH:I game text wording, not because the WH:I game rules instruct me too. Which is a pity, IMHO.






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