Jump to content



Photo

Toughness and Rickard Karstark


  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 Ajes

Ajes

    Member

  • Members
  • 8 posts

Posted 12 July 2010 - 08:03 PM

Rickard Karstark has Toughness 1 and a Capture Rating of 2. Since his toughness lets him ignore one hit, does this mean his Capture Rating effectively is 3? Ie. if there are no figures left in his unit, do an enemy need 2 or 3 hits to capture him?

Thanks!



#2 Old Dwarf

Old Dwarf

    Member

  • Members
  • 454 posts

Posted 12 July 2010 - 11:51 PM

We play it as 3

 

OD


A Dwarf in Winter


#3 badalchemist

badalchemist

    Member

  • Members
  • 17 posts

Posted 13 July 2010 - 05:29 AM

And 4 if he's in a building!



#4 Ajes

Ajes

    Member

  • Members
  • 8 posts

Posted 15 July 2010 - 08:18 PM

He is one tough cookie then, green units can never hope to capture him!

Thanks for helping out.



#5 Palmen

Palmen

    Member

  • Members
  • 9 posts

Posted 16 July 2010 - 12:36 AM

Ajes said:

He is one tough cookie then, green units can never hope to capture him!

Thanks for helping out.

Wait until you play with Gregor Clegane in a red unit with capture 4, THATS impossible to capture.



#6 badalchemist

badalchemist

    Member

  • Members
  • 17 posts

Posted 16 July 2010 - 02:17 AM

Palmen said:

Ajes said:

 

He is one tough cookie then, green units can never hope to capture him!

Thanks for helping out.

 

 

Wait until you play with Gregor Clegane in a red unit with capture 4, THATS impossible to capture.

 

Maybe they'll add some kind of Duel mechanic for Commander vs. Commander combat...



#7 Lars

Lars

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,662 posts

Posted 21 July 2010 - 09:10 AM

yup that toughness is pretty good, though jaimie shouldn't have too hard of a time capturing him



#8 mrmer1in

mrmer1in

    Member

  • Members
  • 27 posts

Posted 14 August 2010 - 04:35 AM

 I captured him in my first play of BoW. Not sure why people say it's tough?

Use a Leadership Card to order a blue unit, the card must add +1 attack dice.

Have Kevan order him and move close, just so he can aid them with the +2 attack dice ability.

After attacking Richard's unit and flushing out the coloured figures, it's just him left. 

It' helps if he is blocked from retreating ;-) heheh

Attack with the super enforced unit mentioned, and blast him with a Flanked Attack! meaning you may roll Yazee style to get 3 hits with 6 attack dice!

Prety simple hey? 



#9 Schmytz

Schmytz

    Member

  • Members
  • 18 posts

Posted 14 August 2010 - 10:22 AM

 OK, it is possible to capture him, but toughness is still a great ability. I could need some help from you guys in figuring out one thing though. Toughness/cover negates hits whenever a unit takes damage. But does the damage from direct hits and damage from blocked retreats count as a single "event" or as two separate events for the purpose of toughness/cover? For example, if Rickard Karstark takes two hits from a single attack, and then also two extra hits due to two flag results from the same attack (oh yes, and he can't retreat), does his unit take 2 or 3 hits in total? I would bet on 3 hits but I believe the rules aren't 100% clear. 



#10 KenToad

KenToad

    Member

  • Members
  • 124 posts

Posted 28 December 2010 - 07:32 PM

Schmytz said:

 OK, it is possible to capture him, but toughness is still a great ability. I could need some help from you guys in figuring out one thing though. Toughness/cover negates hits whenever a unit takes damage. But does the damage from direct hits and damage from blocked retreats count as a single "event" or as two separate events for the purpose of toughness/cover? For example, if Rickard Karstark takes two hits from a single attack, and then also two extra hits due to two flag results from the same attack (oh yes, and he can't retreat), does his unit take 2 or 3 hits in total? I would bet on 3 hits but I believe the rules aren't 100% clear. 

Yeah, I agree.  The rules aren't clear, but I'm 90% sure that hits from retreats count as part of the same attack and thus wouldn't trigger Toughness protection again.



#11 Rashley

Rashley

    Member

  • Members
  • 252 posts

Posted 09 January 2011 - 02:51 AM

I also had a problem with Rickards' Toughness.  It does state each set of 'hits'.  Retreats happen 'after' normal hits, so in theory, failed retreat hits should be seperate and Toughness effects both.  Harsh, but correct if using the rules as written.  I know house rules are becoming very numerous and the official FAQs add many optional rules that new players may not be aware of.  Players like to add ALL hits done in one combat action together, including other units 'flanking' an engaged unit.  This, of course, weakens Toughness/Cover and makes it easier to 'Capture' commanders.  Good or bad is a personal choice, but what about the Command card No 3 of Greatjon?  That allows a unit to take 1hit to increase Rank by 1.  Toughness could ignore this as a seperate set of hits, and most Commanders could as well, as they need 2+ to capture!

I can see a myriad of house rules just covering this one aspect, with no 2 players playing the same, until FFG nail this issue down with something official.  It is OK for regular players to play their own set of rules, but no one likes to spend half their playing time just agreeing on which rules they all like.  Still a good game, but with more expansions coming out quick and fast, this game could easily fragment into as many different versions as there are players.  Cheers!



#12 Mancini

Mancini

    Member

  • Members
  • 39 posts

Posted 09 January 2011 - 04:01 AM

I dont recall that card but if the card staits that a unit must thake 1 unit, then the unit can not ignore that hit, so, thoughness doesnt  work or the capture rate

Only a unit who have take 1 hit can increase Rank by 1

But i do agree with you, FFG should make rules more clear, although i love House Rules  and they allways seemm to work nice on the game no mather wich house rules we invent



#13 Mancini

Mancini

    Member

  • Members
  • 39 posts

Posted 09 January 2011 - 04:05 AM

Mancini said:

I dont recall that card but if the card staits that a unit must thake 1 unit, then the unit can not ignore that hit, so, thoughness doesnt  work or the capture rate

Only a unit who have take 1 hit can increase Rank by 1

But i do agree with you, FFG should make rules more clear, although i love House Rules  and they allways seemm to work nice on the game no mather wich house rules we invent

 

 Sorry for the rusty english

I meant to say

I dont recall that card but if the card states that a must take 1 hit, then thar unit can not ignore that hit

In that case, Thoughness and capture rates doesnt work

Only a unit who have take 1 hit can increase Rank by 1  

 

Sorryyyyyy



#14 KenToad

KenToad

    Member

  • Members
  • 124 posts

Posted 09 January 2011 - 12:54 PM

Mancini said:

Mancini said:

 

I dont recall that card but if the card staits that a unit must thake 1 unit, then the unit can not ignore that hit, so, thoughness doesnt  work or the capture rate

Only a unit who have take 1 hit can increase Rank by 1

But i do agree with you, FFG should make rules more clear, although i love House Rules  and they allways seemm to work nice on the game no mather wich house rules we invent

 

 

 

 Sorry for the rusty english

I meant to say

I dont recall that card but if the card states that a must take 1 hit, then thar unit can not ignore that hit

In that case, Thoughness and capture rates doesnt work

Only a unit who have take 1 hit can increase Rank by 1  

 

Sorryyyyyy

Correct, Mancini.  Also, Commanders cannot take hits to trigger card effects or abilities.  Toughness would not let you ignore a hit that you have taken to activate an ability or trigger that tactic.

I believe that these rules are either in the rulebook or an official clarification by the designer.  No worries about rampant house rules, at least on this point, Rashley.   Also, I believe the "enhanced" rules dampened most players' desires to house rule this game. 

Not mine, though. 



#15 Rashley

Rashley

    Member

  • Members
  • 252 posts

Posted 09 January 2011 - 10:07 PM

Thanks to KenToad for reminding me to check the rule which clearly states that commanders cannot take hits to trigger card effects. (Top of page 23).  That certainly stops a lone commander figure 'absorbing' a hit this way, but you could argue that Rickard Stark gives his Toughness to its unit which also includes himself.  Not a nice argument and I probably wont use it, but it all stems from the idea that a single figure - even a commander on its own - isn't really a single person or the ruling that units perform at full value until destroyed would be nonsense.  Thanks for the replies and happy gameing!  And remember the old adage "You paid for the game and can play any way you want!"  Cheers!



#16 KenToad

KenToad

    Member

  • Members
  • 124 posts

Posted 10 January 2011 - 07:58 AM

Rashley said:

Thanks to KenToad for reminding me to check the rule which clearly states that commanders cannot take hits to trigger card effects. (Top of page 23).  That certainly stops a lone commander figure 'absorbing' a hit this way, but you could argue that Rickard Stark gives his Toughness to its unit which also includes himself.  Not a nice argument and I probably wont use it, but it all stems from the idea that a single figure - even a commander on its own - isn't really a single person or the ruling that units perform at full value until destroyed would be nonsense.  Thanks for the replies and happy gameing!  And remember the old adage "You paid for the game and can play any way you want!"  Cheers!

Cool, yeah.  But I'm 99% certain that the rules don't allow you to ignore a hit that you are taking in order to trigger an effect.  After all, you're not taking a hit if you've ignored it.

I believe the designer may have even clarified that here or on the BoardGameGeek forums.  I'll look for the quote.






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS