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Additional Actions/Attack question


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#1 Jtest

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 10:43 AM

I could use a hand understanding the rules for additional actions and attacks. So lets say we have a character “Tony slayer of mud forts” who has a finial attack score of 200
I understand that if Tony moves to a mud fort, attacks a mud fort, and scans the area for remaining mud forts then those three actions will be at 0,-25,-50. So Tony attacks with a 175.
Now with making additional attacks, which states the character suffers a -25 to his finial ability for each additional attack. So if Tony encountered a reinforced mud fort and decided to attack it three times, each attack would be made at a 150 (-25 for the 2nd and 3rd attacks). This I also understand.
Those rules I understand, the issue lies when Tony spots a reinforced mud fort and makes a full move to it, attacks it three times, and then scans the area for more mud forts. If I understand the three attacks reduce his attack score to 150, but his three attacks are made at 125, 100, and 75 because the cumulative -25 from attritional actions is still present?
 



#2 Blackburn

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 11:18 PM

Ok, this isn't well explained in the book, but I'll give it a go.

You are limited to one use of a give active action per turn.  You can use one of you active actions for magic, for psychic powers, for attacks, etc, but if you have already used that active action then you cannot use another active action to make another one.  At the same time, you can make multiple uses of that specfic action during a turn. 

Confused yet?  You should be.

No matter how many psychic powers I use in a turn, it is only considered one active action, regardless of the type of action or the number of powers used during the turn.  The limit to the number of powers is instead placed on how much you can (and are willing to split up your psychic potential).

By the same token, any spells cast during a round are considered a single action, limited only by the amount of Zeon you have accumulated to spend.

So, while rather unclear, a character with three active actions does not need to use every single one to make three attacks in his turn.  Rather, he declares the total number of attacks he intends to make and applies the appropriate penalty.

A character can only make extra weapon attacks by purchasing the Additional Attack module or having his Attack ability over 100, gaining a single extra attack for each time that applies (ie 2 additional attacks for a final attack ability of 200, 3 additional attacks for buying the Additional Attack module 3 times).

All attacks made on your turn are considered to have occured in the action you use to use them.  So if you do nothing but attack right away, then your attacks are considered to have occurred on the first active action you have.  If you need to use an active action to move first, your attacks would be on the second active action you have.

All of your attacks apply a penalty equally.  If you are making two attacks on your turn, you apply a -25 to both attacks, not just the second one.  If you are making three attacks on your turn, all three have a -50 applied to them.

If your attacks are made during your second or third active actions in that round (a -25 or -50 penalty), then the attacks suffer that cumulative to your attacks.  Two additional attacks made as your second active action would be at -50 each (-25 + -25) while three would be -75 each (-25 + -50).  Extra attacks made on the third term would have an additional -50, so the penalty would be -75 each for two attacks, -100 for three, etc.

The penalty for an additional weapon (ie -10 for a small) is added on top of that weapon's attack, as it is considered extra but has it's own penalty.  So a person who uses an additional weapon for one attack would have no penalty on his single attack with his main and only the penalty for the additional weapon on its attack.  A person making two attacks with his primary weapon would have -25 for those and -25 + the Additional weapon attack penalty for his secondary weapon.  And this all stacks with the penalty for using active actions.

And I believe the exception are counter attacks, which allow you to use a single attack (or two if using an additional weapon) as long as you have unused additional actions, and only apply the additional action penalty, even if you already made your attacks that turn.  Meanwhile, they are considered separate from your attacks if you need to use one before your turn comes around.

Clear as mud, I expect.  Sorry, but I'm in a bit of a hurry, so I can't double check things quite at the moment or take the extra time to clarify points.  I'll try to do that later this evening.  Hope I've helped a little though.



#3 Jtest

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 08:30 AM

That all makes sense, but in all examples all attacks are made back to back.  Since you said you can only do one of a given action a turn does that mean you cannot attack, make a full move, and then attack again?



#4 Blackburn

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 09:42 AM

Jtest said:

 

That all makes sense, but in all examples all attacks are made back to back.  Since you said you can only do one of a given action a turn does that mean you cannot attack, make a full move, and then attack again?

 

 

Basically, otherwise the additional attacks don't make sense.  I think you can only make those extra attacks if you concentrate on the one target, so all the extra attacks occur within the course of that single active action, as the examples in the book apply to the penalty based on the number of attacks to ALL of the attacks equally.  That doesn't make much sense if your second attack is actually your third active action (meaning the penalty should be -50 to both and not -25).

It's for simplicity sake, letting the active action you are on be sort of marked as used.



#5 Jtest

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 07:04 AM

Thank you Blackburn for the speedy and accurate info



#6 Wolfgar

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 11:40 PM

You take an accumulating penalty for each additional Active Action.

So your first action is fine, your second action is at -25, your third action is at -50, etcetera.

You take a -25 penalty for each additional attack beyond the first for all attacks made. Those penalties should just affect the attacks though.

So if you make three attacks during the round, you suffer a -50 to all three attacks.

So if you run, make three attacks, and then scan for more enemies

1. You run unpenalized

2. You make three attacks at -75 each, with -25 for being your second Active action and -50 for making two additional attacks.

3. You scan, with a -50 to your Search Secondary Ability because it's your third Active action.

 

Additional attacks DO NOT have to be on the same target, provided you can reach any other targets within 1/4 of your Move. If you have to move further than that, then your attack Active Action has to end and you forfeit your right to extra attacks.



#7 AlphaWhelp

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 10:30 AM

Does defending work the same way?  If I am defending against 2 total attacks, are my defense rolls all made at -30?



#8 Blackburn

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 02:09 PM

AlphaWhelp said:

Does defending work the same way?  If I am defending against 2 total attacks, are my defense rolls all made at -30?

Not quite.

Defending does not count as an active action, so it doesn't count towards the active action penalty.

But everytime you make a defense roll in a single round, you start to apply the penalty.  The Penalty is 0 for the first roll, -30 for the next, -50 for the next and so on.  You don't apply the same penalty to all your rolls because you always get a defense roll.  And since you have no control over how many times you are attacked in a round, you simply apply this penalty as it comes, and not across to all defense rolls from the first one.

At the beginning of each turn, the defense roll penalty returns to 0 and you start over again.  And regardless of what penalty is being applied to your defense rolls, it has no effect on your Active Actions.



#9 Ryoto

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 11:51 PM

One more question from me, to this topic. :)

When any character has a final attack of 200, and DEX+AGI 16, he can make 5 attacks per turn?



#10 Rii Nagaja

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 12:37 AM

No, not quite because the DEX+AGI Score only determines the number of possible actions per round, but you can still only do one attack action. You can then split this one attack action up into three attacks with a score of 200 if you like, but no more other attacks are allowed (except dual wield maybe).
High DEX+AGI enables you to make run actions, scouting, acrobatics, or even thievery aside from the main battle spectacle.



#11 The Dread Polack

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 06:13 AM

This has been very well explained, but I just want to add, because it's how I think of it, and it seems to help:

  • Each of your rounds consists of a number of total available Active Actions determined by your Dex + Agi.
  • You may also take any number of Passive Actions as you want.
  • You may only take any action once per round. You can only attack once per round, move once per round, cast spells, use powers, climb, heal, etc.
  • Certain Active Actions, such as Attack, Use Powers, or Cast Spells can be sub-divided. You can make multiple Attacks as part of an Attack Action (limited by your Final Attack Ability). You can cast multiple Spells as part of a Cast Spells Action (limited by amount of zeon you have accumulated), and you can use multiple powers as part of a Use Powers Action (limited by your Psychic Potential).

The penalties were explained well enough, so I won't get into that. Hopefully this explaination helps you visualize it a bit better.



#12 Jenks

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 12:06 PM

 @ Blackburn and Friends.

 

THANK YOU for posting this info. It answered a lot of questions I actually planned on posting about today :)

 

One more quick combat question.  It says players determine initiative, then decide what they are going to do with their actions. Do I ask them in order? Reverse order? Just randomly?






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