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Am I missing something - where are the rules for Demeanours?


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#1 H.B.M.C.

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 01:14 AM

Maybe I'm looking at this in completely the wrong way, but aren't Demeanours meant to have their own rules (ie. ? If I'm reading it right, they're just another way of getting what you'd normally get via a Fate Point, but you have to Role-Play it? Seems like a rather wordy and clunky way of just giving everyone an extra Fate Point with a boat-load of caveats added to it.

I mean, what do Son of the Lion or Hot-Blooded do? I mean, there's a fluff description of Red Thirst, but what does that actually do in-game?? And If they all just grant one (or even several) of the things that Fate Points do, then why even have two of them, especially since you can only ever use one once per session - might as well not have additional ones.

Maybe it's because this is a demo scenario, and that Demeanours will get full rules in the real rulebook, but right now they just seem like Fate Points + Extra Rules, and that seems like a real wasted opportunity.

Please someone set me straight.

BYE

 


Matt Eustace. Contributing Author Credits: Church of the Damned, The Lathe Worlds, The Lathe Worlds - The Lost Dataslate, Only War Core Rulebook, Hammer of the Emperor, Shield of Humanity, Tome of Fate, Tome of Blood, Tome of Excess and Tome of Decay.

The views expressed in this post are my own. I do not speak for or on behalf of Fantasy Flight Games.


#2 Cifer

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 02:14 AM

 The way they were described in the Designer diary, they basically are Fate Points. Except for the fact that they happen to be twice as strong as a fatepoint if you portray them in a way that is considered suitably awesome by your group. And the point of chapter and personal demeanor is to have both a baseline due to the chapter's outlook on life in general as well as your specific marine's personal philosophy, each of which may be drawn on for your evening's personal Crowning Moment Of Awesome. This can be as basic as the Apothecary declaring he is focusing on the standard medicae procedures outlined in the Codex Astartes to employ his healing gear (+10 bonus to a medicae check) or as detailed as the Blood Angel Devastator, while getting ambushed by the broodlord, recalling his primarch's final days and detailing how he senses an enemy's approach, spreads his wings, jumps up, turns in the air and drives his flaming sword deeply into the bloodthir- er, broodlord's body, triggering both the Blood Frenzy (reroll damage) ability and The Red Thirst (+20 awareness to not suffer a surprise round).



#3 H.B.M.C.

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 02:56 AM

So in other words they're not a sort of 'other' Talents/Traits type with their own set of rules for each type... they're just a different way of getting Fate Point bonuses with a bit of extra 'oomph' if you can talk in a funny accent and quote something from Dawn of War when using it. Gotcha.

Pity. I would have liked them to each have their own rules.

BYE 


Matt Eustace. Contributing Author Credits: Church of the Damned, The Lathe Worlds, The Lathe Worlds - The Lost Dataslate, Only War Core Rulebook, Hammer of the Emperor, Shield of Humanity, Tome of Fate, Tome of Blood, Tome of Excess and Tome of Decay.

The views expressed in this post are my own. I do not speak for or on behalf of Fantasy Flight Games.


#4 Cifer

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 04:00 AM

 So in other words they're not a sort of 'other' Talents/Traits type with their own set of rules for each type... they're just a different way of getting Fate Point bonuses with a bit of extra 'oomph' if you can talk in a funny accent and quote something from Dawn of War when using it. Gotcha.

Yep, that whole "roleplaying" thing is pretty ridiculous, isn't it? 



#5 H.B.M.C.

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 09:59 AM

Cifer said:

Yep, that whole "roleplaying" thing is pretty ridiculous, isn't it? 


Sorry, I just had higher hopes for that section of the rules and combined it with my cynicism over how so many things in 40K have turned into memes thanks to 4Chan's disassembling of the Dawn of War series (like the utterly idiotic 'Spehsss Mahreeehns' meme, which is just the result of mostly American users not being able to differentiate between certain styles of British accents - he says "Space", not "Spehs". 

Grr... I wanted these rules to be cooler.

BYE


Matt Eustace. Contributing Author Credits: Church of the Damned, The Lathe Worlds, The Lathe Worlds - The Lost Dataslate, Only War Core Rulebook, Hammer of the Emperor, Shield of Humanity, Tome of Fate, Tome of Blood, Tome of Excess and Tome of Decay.

The views expressed in this post are my own. I do not speak for or on behalf of Fantasy Flight Games.


#6 Brother Praetus

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 11:23 AM

H.B.M.C. said:

Cifer said:

Yep, that whole "roleplaying" thing is pretty ridiculous, isn't it? 



Sorry, I just had higher hopes for that section of the rules and combined it with my cynicism over how so many things in 40K have turned into memes thanks to 4Chan's disassembling of the Dawn of War series (like the utterly idiotic 'Spehsss Mahreeehns' meme, which is just the result of mostly American users not being able to differentiate between certain styles of British accents - he says "Space", not "Spehs". 

Grr... I wanted these rules to be cooler.

BYE

 

 

Well, the Demeanor rules are described on page 18.  I suppose that a SM's personal demeanor would apply to a variety of uses.  For instance:

  • Ambitious - not to sure; maybe apply to one-on-one engagements, maybe some social actions.
  • Calculating - applicable to Logic, Lore (War) and Lore (Codex); possibly other areas.
  • Gregarious - bonus should apply to the use of social skills in a non-threatening manner.  Charm, some instances of Deceive.
  • Hot-Blooded - Intimidate and close-combat, maybe ranged as well.
  • Pious - maybe apply bonus to WP rolls to resist Fear, Insanity, etc.  Also likely to apply to social interactions with the Ecclesiarchy.
  • Studious - bonus would likely apply to checks using Lore skills, maybe Medicae.

I don't know, I'm sure we'll see a bit more in the Corebook explaining how they work.  Remember, Final Sanction is just a taste of things to come.

-=Brother Praetus=-


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#7 Aajav-Khan

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 01:41 AM

Cifer said:

Yep, that whole "roleplaying" thing is pretty ridiculous, isn't it? 

    As a self-confessed cynic, I still see possible problems . Eg. "super awesome moment" becoming an automatic feature because of peer pressure.

"OK, that is the final end boss! We need every edge possible to win and survive."

"Fine, I still have my Demeanour unused. I´ll kick it on and start hacking with my power sword."

"Errr.. but what are you doing exactly?"

"What? For crying out loud! I shout: For the Emperor blahblah in memory of Russ blahblah and blah...Can we now please get on with the show? You´re not going to deny me use of it!? At a moment like this? Remember that I have supported your use every single time."

"....OK."

     Players are ultimately humans.



#8 Cifer

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 01:51 AM

 @Aajav-Khan

I think I'll slightly modify the rule to produce a simple psychological change in perception: There's only a thumbs-up, no thumbs-down. If you consider it ok (or bad), you don't do anything, if you consider it outstandingly great, you give a thumbs-up. Thus, you're not actually "punishing" another player, you merely have the choice of rewarding him or not.



#9 dvang

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 02:53 AM

Well, you do realize that the rules specifically say that if they roleplay them well they get bonuses if there's a roll involved, right? They get to double applicable bonuses, so a +10 becomes a +20, a +20 becomes a +40, or, if used for healing, heals twice as much (2d5) etc.  Also note the top right brown box on page 19.  If they trigger a demeanour something good still happens:

"It is recommended to the GM that triggering a Demeanour should always have something extremely impressive occur in-game, even if the player's dice utterly desert him. A Triggered Demeanour that results in an attack that hits and fails to do damage, for example, could still knock down the enemy..."

So, a Demeanour isn't just a Fate point ... it is an Uber-Fate point.

 



#10 Hesporos

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 05:31 PM

 Yeah....

See the problem i can see is that this is a role playing game, if they do not want to role play then why are they here? I like the Demeanor system, honestly a lot better than fate points. "You have be thrown out of an air lock, your dead." "I am using a fate point and there is a random Space Suit out here!"..... Fail.

This makes me feel like people will have to at least put some effort into their own awesomeness.

oh well, lets hope it works out!



#11 Brother Praetus

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 10:36 PM

Hesporos said:

 Yeah....

See the problem i can see is that this is a role playing game, if they do not want to role play then why are they here? I like the Demeanor system, honestly a lot better than fate points. "You have be thrown out of an air lock, your dead." "I am using a fate point and there is a random Space Suit out here!"..... Fail.

This makes me feel like people will have to at least put some effort into their own awesomeness.

oh well, lets hope it works out!

Um, you know, as I recall, the description behind the "how" of using a Fate Point to avoid death is left to the GM, as are any long-term effects to the PC.

-=Brother Praetus=-


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